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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 12.01 PRC MinutesParks and Recreation Meeting -December 1, 2004.1 CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION MEETING December 1, 2004 6:00 p.m. Meeting was held in the Parks and Recreation Conference Room 1001 North Idaho Road •Apache Junction Arizona 85219 Present at the meeting were: Director of Parks and Recreation Jeff Bell Secretary for the Department of Parks and Recreation Mary March Commission Members Theresa Nesser Richard Anderson Conrad Pisinski Vincent Barr Pat Richmond Mona Barton Presenter. Dog Park Marta Saint -James Pinal County Recorder Laura Dean Lytle Apache Junction Residents Evonne Davenport of 201 East Southern Ave #44 Maxine White of 201 East Southern Ave #88 .Pat Wilson of 201 East Southern Ave #123 Jody Simmons of 201 East Southern Ave #63 Gloria Zuyall of 201 East Southern Aye #44 Jean Wilson of 201 East Southern Avenue #123 Dorthea M. Jennings of 201 East Southern Ave.#88 Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.2 THERESA NESSER:Opened the meeting at 6 p.m. (The pledge was said) THERESA NESSER:Can I have a motion for the acceptance of the agenda? RICHARD ANDERSON:I make a motion to accept the agenda. THERESA NESSER:Do I have a second? CONRAD PISINSKI:I second. THERESA NESSER:And we'll have a voice vote, all in favor signify by saying, "Aye".All those opposed signify by saying, "Nay".Hearing none, we'll accept the agenda. Number two.Acceptance of the minutes of August 4th 2004 and November 3rd 2004.Do I have a motion? CONRAD PISINSKI:I move we accept the minutes as presented. THERESA NESSER:Do I have a second? PAT RICHMOND:Second. THERESA NESSER:We'll have a voice vote.All in favor, signify by saying, "Aye".All opposed signify by saying, "Nay".Hearing none, we'll accept the minutes of August 4th and November 3rd 2004. Staff comments Mr. Bell. JEFF BELL:Thank you Madam Chairman, members couple items tonight.The commission asked me to, explore what options we have with some problems we attendance to our meetings from board members or commission of the commission, informally, asked me to have relating to members. have checked with the city clerk's office.She suggested that the first attempt is maybe to send him a letter, but his phone has changed so we can't contact him, but we'll send him letter giving him so many days to respond of his interest and if he doesn't respond that's a clear indication of his interest. And if he does respond and say he's interested we'll make sure he gets here.If he does respond and doesn't get here the commission can put it as an agenda item we can take formal action asking the city council to consider the removal of that individual for lack of attendance. I would suggest, if the commission does not mind, I will send him a letter indicating the poor attendance that he's been demonstrating over the last year and find out his interest.And, like I said, I'll give him a time frame, 30 days to get back to me.If I don't hear back, then we'll go to our next batch of talent based applications see if we can't get the position filled.Okay? It's been awhile since we've met.Last month we just were missing one from having a quorum so I do appreciate everybody's attendance tonight.* A couple months prior to that, staff and a couple of commissioners were out gallivanting around the state collecting awards.And back in,, I guess it was September, we went to the Arizona Parks and Recreation Association.Commissioner Richmond and Commissioner Pisinski attended that conference with us and we received an award that -- we have a video that we're going to share with you.This is the video that was shown at the night of the awards dinner from the Arizona Parks and Recreation Association.So we'll show that. (Video shown.) Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.3 JEFF BELL:All right.That's good stuff.That's our State Parks and Recreation Association and for us in the profession it's the most prestigious award you can receive in the state because it's voted on by your peers, by our fellow parks professionals.So it's really exciting for us to -- we do appreciate Pat and Conrad for attending that event with us, actually Mr. Hoffman came over and attended that evening, too, so it was really nice. Of course, that was September. Then October rolled around and we had we had submitted the same facility to the governor's office for an "Excellence in Rural Development Award" and in Lake Havasu the first week of October we were selected for the governor's "Excellence in Rural Development" under the Parks and Recreation category with only one recipient in the whole state for Parks and Recreation.And we received another award, they didn't give us a nice video, but they did it get us a nice plaque that's up in front of the office and what a great opportunity for us to attend to that event.There were several hundred elected officials in the audience when our name was called and it just shows that all those folks from around this state we got some neat things happening here in Apache Junction. So it was really an honor -- and Senator Rios and Representative Chase presented the award to -- Governor was supposed to but didn't show up and so we had some state Representatives and State Senators there, that presented us those awards. All in all it was real nice so I apologize for not having a meeting but, you know, I've been hanging out in Lake Havasu, London Bridge Resort and Wild Horse Pass Conference Center and casino. THERESA NESSER:All those important places. Okay.We'll move onto old business.First is discussion on the dog park. JEFF BELL:Thank you, Madam Chairman.With us tonight we have a guest, several guests it •appears -- MARTA SAINT -JAMES: I didn't know Jeff. JEFF BELL: That's --- MARTA SAINT -JAMES: That's wonderful. JEFF BELL: It is wonderful.And Marta Saint -James and I have been in contact over the last few months trying to get • her to this group 7 - in front of this group, she is very passionate about having an off -leash facility, a dog park, a Bark Park, whatever you want to call it.Very interested in talking about it and promoting it for a couple of years now and so I thought it would be an excellent opportunity for her to come share her information, her research with this group and see if there is any desire on some type of a partnering effort. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Okay.Do you want me to stand up there, sit down, what do you want me to, do? JEFF BELL:However you'd like to do it. MARTA SAINT -JAMES: I'm a .teacher Co it doesn't botber me to be up here.It's funny, because talking to Jeff you should 'know,' because so many people wanted to come today and as you know the. room is small so our Pinal County Recorder, Laura Dean Lytle, she is: representing Apache Junction and she said, "No, I'll go there to support you".This is wonderful.So, thank you ladies. .•Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.4 What happened, as of two years ago, I started this project in Gold Canyon, that's where I'm from, and the problem we are not incorporated, so somebody has to donate three acres and that's not easy.So that's what I've been -- and then I started thinking, well, I take my dog 26 miles to Mesa to the dog park it would be wonderful to have it here, that's when I called Jeff.And the -1 when he told me you have about 186 acres of parks. Gosh, I only want three.What I've been doing, and I have to tell you this, I have to mention Carol Urich, she was city council for many years and she tried.She just mention that to the city council about two or three years ago and so Carol and I have been talking because I said, "Carol you had an idea but you didn't have a plan".Well, I got a plan. And what I did -- I was a researcher in my previous job and I research, not only in the State of Arizona, I have been in every dog park in the state but also in other states and I wanted to -- not only research to see what works in the park but I also research to see what people feel about dog parks.And just about I don't want to say 100 percent but 99 percent community, the people in the community without dogs were against the dog park.City managers, city councils, were against the dog parks. But when it came -- when they established the park they changed -- it was an 180 degree turn because they saw the benefits. Everybody has a package that I -gave-.And what I did, I'm offering my help, the only thing .you need put is the acreage and the fencing.But in all the parks that I've seen, one park, in my opinion, is the best one. And that is the one in Fountain Hills.It's very well run, very well managed.They don't own the park, the town owns the park, but the people who manage, they form a dog owners group.They call A -DOG.So I'm thinking, "I can form the same thing", so I have a Gold Canyon DOG -- Dog Owners Group.And what we are going to do, we are not going to run we -- we are not really own the park but we are going to help and the community has to get involved also.And I took the liberty of putting Prospector Bark Park, I couldn't call it like that it Gold Canyon because we may have three acres and it's next to a subdivision so Sandy Smith asked me to change the name -- you know, Bark Park, people think dogs bark in the Bark Park so we changed it to Gold Canyon Paws in the Park.But over here we can call it Silly Mountain, whatever you whatever you think you may be an appropriate place. Shadow Mountain, whatever you have space. If you go through the package I'm going to go very, very quickly so you can see what I've •done.I don't think I have loop holes in my presentation, I think I've thought about just about everything.The first part is what the community, how it benefits. Number one, exercise the dogs in a safe environment.Legally they can run off leash.Now, I'm sure Jeff, you know the problems •when people go to Prospector, and I'm guilty of that too, you know, if nobody's around I let it off the leash.Dogs •need to run.But it's, you know, I know it's against the law basically but the dog needs to run and there is no leash that big.I think, in my opinion, what it does, and that's kind of the mission, promotes responsible pet ownership.People do change when they're in a safe environment.And not only they change because they see Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.5 other people doing the right things because they see the benefits between the dogs and the owners. Elderly and disabled people.It provides an accessible place.I have never seen a park in any place in the United States that has -- that is barrier free.Now barrier free, a person in a wheelchair can maneuver or a person who is disabled.My park is barrier free because it's going to have a path in cement. I had it done by an architect.If you think you have the reviewed version.But what it is -- what it is, it's a path, you know, I don't know of you're familiar with dog parks but you have -- it's a fenced area and then it should be a smaller area for passive, for smaller dogs that is fenced in.What you have is a double gated entrance, that's when you unleash your dog.And I've never seen, except in Scottsdale, that somebody was walking without the leash and they were fined $500 dollars. So people take it witn the leash up to the unleash area and then what I thought is a path 6 feet wide in cement that it goes, not all around the park, but around the perimeter.That's comfortable for a person so a person in a wheelchair can maneuver.And I put paw prints, because I'm thinking, well, it's a way to raise funds too.In Hollywood they have the Walk of Fame, this is the Paw of Fame.People are going to have, you know, their own dogs they have the paws and you can sell the paws with a little plaque.I lost a dog to illness, -so I need a memorial wall like so many other people.And, you know, everything is for sale.I was thinking also that people can donate, you know how they do bricks?Well, in this case they can donate piece of -- sections of fence because the fence is probably the most expensive. Now you have to remember that all my research has been done in unincot:porated area.You have other financial means.They going to have -- Chandler, they have three Bark Parks, the City of Chandler.Pinal County has none.And I was thinking they have like a mud -- it's like a little, it's not ever a lake but the dogs get so dirty over there so I thought about a big patch of cement with drainage and they. can have a little -- like a fire hydrant, makeshift fire hydrant, it's really a faucet with misters.You know, for the summer and a place where you can wash your dogs over there.By the way, the fire department, I have them looking for a fire hydrants.I have a good sense of humor too because this is a great prefect.And in Gold Canyon I have a lot of people that have landscaping companies they're already pledged donating trees, you know, of course, there not going to be any of oleanders or any kind of poisonous plants. So the other one is; It promotes public health and safety because I take my doggy bags and I see many times people don't pick up.That is a health hazard, especially with children and, of course, it's a way to enforco the laws.Dog control, you know, it's a perfect place.The Apache Junction Bark Park it will be the same thing, you know, you have to designate a plan that -- you have to have concern for the environment. You have to have probably three acres is the best, surrounded by a six- foot fence.I don't think any dog can jump that.You have to have the double gated entrance the two fenced areas.Lights.I think it's a great idea because, you know, parks should be open at least until 10, 11 Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.6 o'clock.A drinking fountain, washing area;.dog poo containers that you have your own bags.By the way, our group, our Dog Owners Group, donated a dog poo container in Dinosaur Park.And Sandy Smith caMe to the •designation and ceremony, she says, "I've never been, to --a dog poo container" -- but, you know, people are picking up.And if they don't we just say, "You know what?I have some extra bags".You know, so if you - in another Superstition Foothills, they put up professional ones and people are picking up.So it's working.Little by little. Memorial wall like I told you. A bulletin board.I think is so important to have a bulletin board, no commercial posting it's something if it is a dog lost, a dog that is found, a dog for adoption, you know, something that people can communicate. Parking, of course, has to be close to the site. Grass area.In the city of Payson, they have chips, wood chips and it's working for them because if we go into some kind rationing with water but that's another possibility. They should have covered garbage cans.They sell them, they have great kinds that are just for dog poo containers. Pooper scoopers. Now, this is something that I think is important, they have it in Chandler; dog agility eguipment. Because.I talk to Sharon Vanderpool, and I said, "Do you think that if we have something" --it will attract people to have the police dogs, the canines demonstration and they said, "Yeah, once a month they can go for demonstrations". And, of course, it has to be a safe location. It can not be isolated. The site is very important, the traffic, noise, maintenance, that's - there're given. The next page is very important.You have to have etiquette guidelines.I don't like to call it rules but you can call them anything you want and they should be posted.Now these are some -- you have to remember this is a privilege to enter this park.And these are some of the things that I have seen in other parks.Dogs, you have to enforce this and what I've noticed you don't have to have a policeman.People, the dog owners, enforce their own rules.If it is an aggressive dog, we tell them.I go to dog parks a lot, and Kramer, my dog, is extremely passive and we tell them, "I'm sorry but, you know, you're going to have to leave".Or we call the police, and we will.Well, it's, you know, it' S dangerous because it is a liability issue.So they must be licensed and vaccinated.That's why you can not have dogs that they are less than 4 months old, because they don't qualify. Another thing, they should be under voice control.You have to clean up after your dog.If they are aggressive they must be leashed. Female dogs, of course we -- spayed or neutered dogs they are preferred. This is important, to limit three dogs per person, per visit.You can not have a person that is walking ten dogs just because they are not going to be able to take care of that. The owners are responsible to cover holes or any damage in the tuff. No smoking or food allowed.That's why we don't put picnic tables we just Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.7 put benches. Another thing that I, well -- I don't want to get into that but I noticed in one park that they were always sitting in the same place, all the people.It was a group of people from the same neighborhood sitting in the same place so that's a bad idea because the dogs start being protective of their space so little things like that that only a good trainer can explain. The City of Chandler, I don't know if you read about it, but they prohibit any, anybody under age of 14.They don't care if it is with the mother or a parent.I think it's a little harsh I think they should be allowed but I was thinking in one of the dog parks that I saw in Atlanta, Georgia they got a sign, you know, it says; Dogs off leash, children on a leash.I thought it was funny.Somebody's going to get offended I suppose. Children, for dogs, children are other dogs.So that's why you have to be careful when there's children around, you have to tell them they can not run.Roller skates, of course, roller blades, everything is -- they're not allowed. The next one, I'm not going to go through that.This is only for your information these are the design ideas. The sky's the limit with the design ideas.I'm trying to keep anything -- I explained everything about that, the bzglletin board.Okay. The fund raising ideas, again, the sky's the limit with this one. People are going to -- you can have dog shows, you can have training like regular training every week, every month, snake training.Just whatever you imagine, you know, you can have it.And then I have the other fund raising ideas, you know, paws for the cure, wagging tails days, I mean just everything for fun. The next page I put something called Paw Alert, so you know that I'm pretty serious about .dogs.If a dog is found in Gold Canyon, we cannot take it to Apache Junction Animal Control, they won't take it.We have to call Pinal County.So I thought that because, you know, well you see a lot of dogs that are lost or we find dogs so I started -- I am not a rescue organization, I just have a web site.And I have a web site, one of the pages in my web site is called Paw Alert.So they call me, they call one of the volunteers if -- I am the creator but there are two other volunteers and right away we put it in the web site and we have had a lot of successful reunions. If they call me right away, the key is immediate. Janet, Jan Decker, she is the Pinal County Animal Control Director, she was in my house with Sandy Smith -- I always need big shooters.Well they are very much for the creation of the dog park but Jane Decker, she liked the program, Paw Alert, and it's a gentleman that wanted to help in Case Grande so we're going county wide.The gentleman is an expert in web sites, I'm not, I learned to do web sites just to do this but -- so we're going county wide with Paw Alert and it's helping animal control.Though we cannot take our dogs to Apache Junction, they have been wonderful to us.They are the first people I call is the A.J. Margaret, Officer Marcelino, they're really big supporters, and I support them. We put in the web site about the clinics. Parks and Recreation Meeting. December 1, 2004. Clinics, we can have, vaccination clinics in the park, grooming, .then I put some --- I have templates..If somebody doesn't know how to put a -- now th.2se are dogs that we found, right away if they don't have --- -I carry my digital, I bought -a'digital just for the:dogs.-And if they don't have access to a camera T go and take a picture and weput it right away we put it -- this is a typical example, this dog was an older dog, this little Lhaso apso, and he just got older and he got disoriented, it can happened to us too.He was trying to find the park so somebody found it and the people didn't know they were gone because they went to work and, of course, no collar, no tags, and we always check for microchips hut again, if we find .something on a Sunday microchips are no good.So I just put this templates ;in so you can see it. Then I put a little sample, the reduced version Of the park. Then I put a sample page about my web site, you can see they're bones, Kramer is my 12 -year -7 -old Golden Retriever. The next one is probably -- I always believe in having something emotional but I have to tell you why I've started this.I moved to Arizona from Michigan, I think you notice my Michigan accent. THERESA NESSER:Is that where it's from, we always wondered. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I was born and raised in Argentina but I lived in Michigan for 20 years and.we had two Golden Retrievers at the time, Kramer was one, Kramer was extremely abused-.Ke rescued him nine years ago from a shelter in Michigan.And we got another retriever, that was in '95 when we rescue Kramer, and we had another retriever that he was three years old.When we moved to Arizona, the :other retriever, Cody, was seven. About two months later he was diagnosed with Valley Fever.I never -heard about Valley Fever, it was my first experience.We gave him the pills, after eight months he was okay.But the medicine did -something to his organs and four months later we had to put him asleep.Well, Kramer was extremely abused, but with our help, he was 38 pounds when I got him, he got up.to 65 pounds. When Cody died, he lost 10 pounds in almost two months.I couldn't put him out of that mourning.And somebody told me - about a dog.park in Mesa.So, which I never heard about dog parks,,so I took him to the dog park and it was -- it was instant love, because usually there are a lot of retrievers over there, twice a day for over three months.We drove a total .of -104 miles everyday, but that dog changed completely.And, of course, when they talked to the Gold Canyon abRut establishing -a park I opened my big mouth."Is somebody thinking .of a dg park?"Yeah.I was in charge..But that's what .I'm so passionate, because I can see the benefits and I can know the benefits of a dog park. The other thing I wanted to tell you is, I don't have any political aspirations, everything I do is volunteer.There is no financial -- df one of the dogs that we find or.we find the owners of the dog through Paw Alert we don't, I don't take any money.If they want to donate anything it will go to the park project.So I don't have any interest just my love for dogs. We have been in the newspaper since October of.2002, when I started this project, 54 times.And -a couple of times in front page.So I think it's an interest.Not only in the dog owners you can see todaythere is an interest also in the media.I mean, the reporters, they really want to Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004. have a dog park. Some places, just to give you an idea, in the Pedemont Park in Atlanta, Georgia, two years ago they were talking about having a dog park so they said, "Well we don't think city 'council said, "We're going to do adamant, he says,"I think it's going it's a 'good idea".Somebody in the on a trial basis".And he was very to fail".Within six -months -- it was going to be for one year, within six -months he said, "We have to keep the dog park",because it was a total success. The other one is liability.You have to -- Sandy Smith, if we opened one in Gold Canyon -- I am pursuing the one in Gold Canyon too, it will be -- the county will give us a blanket insurance.So you have to have insurance. The cost, I didn't put the cost because if I go to Home Depot and buy fence I'm sure it's a little different than if the City of Apache Junction goes and buys the fence so it -- the cost it has to be determined.It's not cheap.But the benefits are greater and again, about liability, I mean you can be liable just walking in the streets of Apache Junction.I mean liability is something that we have to live with. I basically, not only that the people that are here, but the people from my Dog Owners Group, I have people from Gold Canyon, people from Queen Valley, people from Apache Junction that are members and everybody say's the same thing, "We are willing to' help".Because you guys will be about 10 miles from us.Unless it's Silly Mountain.Then you are going to have complete help because it's closer to us. So that's about it.If you have any questions I'll be very happy to answer them. .THERESA NESSER:Does anyone have any questions • from PAT RICHMOND:No.I don't have any questions but I You sure have done ycur -homework. MARTA SAINT -JAMES: Thank you. THERESA NESSER:I was quite impressed by this. MARTA SAINT -JAMES: Thank you. PAT RICHMOND:Yes.Yes.I was.We have talked of doggy park here got a comment. at Apache Junction for sometime and there and again, financing is --- MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Sure.• PAT RICHMOND:-- is.the big thing thing. k.MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I think you can get -- many of the things can still be donated even if it is a city. PAT RICHMOND:Oh -yeah. MARTA SAINT -JAMES: Many of the fund-raisers, that's why I put fund- raiser ideas.And every time I get more ideas because they're so many things.It was a very good article also in yesterday's Independent about Sheila Ingred, the lady from Loaders Training, she, well, you didn't see it but I got an interest she's in my web site too and she is--- we met because she wants to do the same thing in Queen Creek, in Johnson Ranch, so I put the same -- I say, "I'll help you.I'll help you with everything".You know, all the research because I know that many people don't put everything in writing and it's not only the vision it's the practical aspects of opening Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004L 10 a dog park. Yeah.It's not inexpensive but I think, again, the benefits, and you can do it also on a trial basis Ilmean it could be done if people are not sure. THERESA NESSER:Should we open this up first for a -public -- JEFF BELL:If I could, Madam Chairman a couple comments myself. Back in -February of 2002, we did a report to the city council, it was, Who Let the Dogs Out?But it wasjust a short report and we addressed,. you • know, the need for one, the liability, supervision, many of the same suggested rules that Marta has listed, the site design, equipment, liability, and a rough cost estimate that was based on placing it on an existingADark facility to take advantage of; you know, remember you have to have a restroom• facilities and that, costs go up.And it Could kill you so I have copies of that if anybody would like -- I don't have enough for everybody but .I have a -- MARTA SAINT -JAMES:May I have one? •JEFF BELL:You sure can. .MARTA SAINT -JAMES: That would be great JEFF BELL:If anyoneon-the.commission would like to take one_Some of you might rememberWhen we got_that. So that was when Council Member Urich expressed an interest and asked staff to research it.In addition to the photos we had a series of videos— or pictures that we showed at the council, because we traveled all over and got pictures of existing facilities around the valley. And it all was a matter of funding at the time we had our capital facilities program in place which, you know, had some $7 million in recreation facilities but this:one:-wasn't one of them.And so the talk -at that time was maybe come Capital Facilities Program Two, this will be incorporated in there, it was just. an idea.Of course, Carol got off the council, interest dropped a little -bit, although ,I can't --can honestly say the need hasn't dropped any.Since then we've also started a Park Ranger Program to.heIp with managing our facilities out there and educating people-on rules. Dogs off leash is a :constant problem to the point where we've even had to issue some citations and although that's our last resort some people just don't want to adhere to leash laws and it does create -- it could create a safety situation out there so most the time we educate - people but oh a-rare Occasion we have to even cite,We don't like doing •that and so the need is definitely there. So a little history, a little of our current situation-.I guess I would ask a question of you Marta, if the city said here's three acres -- • could you develop it, or I guess I'm' asking what are the' expectations in a partnership?Thinking also that We have to develop our facilities, following development standards that everybody builds to and when you start doing fund-raising, you start getting donations, sometimes. the quality-oft:he work or the quality of the materials isn't quite up to the standards. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:That's right. JEFF -BELL:So we want to make sure that, you know, it's:developed properly that it's going to be long lasting of course, and all of our Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.11 facilities get, you know, suffer a a question for you. THERESA NESSER:Mr. Bell, mind, .would it be feasible if a than a fenced area, without the off area that would allow people, in there with their dogs?I mean JEFF BELL:•Phase One. THERESA NESSER:Yeah. this because this is what it maybe just the fencing first have with liability if there lot of wear and tear, so that's kind of can I ask you a question, if you don't Bark Park would start out as nothing more double gates and everything just a fenced who go giving up to Prospector them a place. Park,to just go I mean, instead of saying, "Well we can't would cost"..But yet we just want to do What, I mean, what kind of situation do was only a fenced area where you would do you tell people, "This is where you can take your dogs and take them off the leash".What is the city's liability and -- JEFF BELL:I don't think that changes the liability, it doesn't matter if it's a -- has all the -- PAT RICHMOND:-- fancy . JEFF BELL:-- amenitieS or a simple one, I think the liability remains the same.I don't think it's that much additional costs to double gate it. THERESA NESSER:Oh.Okay. JEFF BELL:I think your costs-run.sinto if you want turf, irrigation system lots of cost there.You know, fencing's going to cost, you know, two or three acres of fencing.Lighting is'a major expense. THERESA NESSER:But right now if you wanted to just, with no lighting or anything. ,MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Lighting is not important at the beginning. THERESA NESSER: - So we could start out with one acre -- RICHARD ANDERSON:So lighting could be added later. THERESA NESSER:Yeah.That's what I'm saying.Could that not be done and everything added later as it goes?If you start out as one acre and Jeff has down here that fencing would be, like, fencing and gating; $10 thousand for one acre.So, that's the first goal. RICHARD ANDERSON:Do it in stages. THERESA NESSER:Yes.Do it -- maybe do it in 2, 10, ,20, whatever stages yearly and add another thing to it. %MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I like that idea.One acre may be'a little small, that's what I think, two acres would be the minimum because they have to run. THERESA NESSER:No.I understand that, what I mean is it can always expand later. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:But you know, I didn't think about this, doing it in stages.I think it's a good idea.I will go for that.And you can -- THERESA NESSER:Marta will go for anything. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I will go for anything.I will tell you there was a little piece around Dinosaur Park, I'll take anything, ,a block.But it's true, I do because I do know the benefit and I know that once it's established the community will come you can see it, it was in your paper, newspaper article.Look at this.So the desire is there for a plabe to Parks and Recreation Meeting -December 1,2004.12 take, legally, I don't feel good when I unleash my dog, but I don't feel good when my dog cannot run.So the big question is the legality.And also it's not dangerous because you have to limit children.• VINCENT BARR:That would be my question.Prospector Park does have a playground area where the kids or what not, so where would be the placement of this park so that it would not be too close to the playground area? JEFF BELL:Right.And we'd have to take a look at that and, you know, I don't feel there's anything existing out there that we can -- let's take that isn't already heavily used -- let's take this ball field and turn it into a park.But, you know, we have 200 acres of land out there so I think we'll need to expand to the east to create this type of facility which also means some roadway extensions and I know could just' be a granite parking lot but there are some cost in grating and rubbing and clearing and all that:. I don't have any problems putting some of those types of estimates together.I mean I could do anything from taking Marta's layout and get a full-fledged cost estimate on' if .-- and that's if we went out and got a contractor and they came in and did everything, to all the way down to a phased approach with just some fencing for a couple acres.And the purpose is the need, so yoU have to have an irrigation -system to have turf out there., MARTA SAINT -JAMES:'Well; the other possibility instead of turf just chips.Wood chips. JEFF BELL:Payson you said has --- MARTA SAINT -JAMES:You know your counter part in Payson, because I called him and he said he was going to send you a letter, he said, "I was, against the dog park before".But now he's for.I said, "Would you send Jeff a letter?"He said, "Yeah, I will". THERESA NESSER:The regular wood chips like you get at Home Depot? PAT RICHMOND: Probably similar to the -- MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Actually, they have chippers there. THERESA NESSER:That's trUe too. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Because they have a chipper. THERESA NESSER: . 'Lou use your chips. .MARTA SAINT.-JAMES:Your own chips. THERESA NESSER:Around town. k.MARTA SAINT -JAMES:It's not something you have to go and buy.You use your own.Do you'have a chipper? JEFF BELL:Yes.We don't have the amount of chipping that takes •place in Payson' obviously around here. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Who brings the wood? THERESA.NESSER:Me could start with Christmas trees. JEFF BELL:That's what we do. THERESA NESSER:Have everybody drop off their Christmas trees at, a , MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Sure.That's another idea.VINCENT BARR:There's' no question about the need.And as the -City of Apache Junction continues to grow and houses are being built south of the freeway and more, and more people moving in with their dogs -- the need is there, Parks and Recreation Meeting -December 1, 2004.13 And it's going to continue to grow.But at the same time Apache Junction does have limited funds so it has to be done wisely. THERESA NESSER:Yeah.And the kids want to be in a nice park. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I know.I know.Well, I'll tell you something, I had also the school, I went to the principal in the Gold Canyon Elementary School because there was a section right there by Dinosaur Park in the golf course that she said she was going to let us use that for a dog park, so I like to be close to children because children do learn responsible pet ownership with them.I do it in my little Dinosaur Park. You know, everybody cleans up because this is bad for dogs and they learn because my dog is so well trained, they say, "How do you do it?"I say, "Just bring your dog and we'll do it".So it's fun.It's fun for elderly people, it's fun for young people and what I've noticed more and more, especially in many areas in Peralta, young people are moving into the area.It's not any more us seniors.So they do.They do want dog parks. THERESA NESSER:One of the things that I noticed in here that I kind of like is -- it's not even so much that it's giving people a place to take their dogs but people who may be have big yards and won't even bring their dogs here, you could do monthly events like a dog training and, you know, through the parks and rec. or something where it's just your regular thing where they could -- I know you have, I think -- PAT RICHMOND:We have dog -- - THERESA NESSER:But it could be done there or the sheriffs bringing the canine there and people, they could bring the schools and the kids could watch them train the canines and different things like that. Eventually, you know, build that into with all the little equipment and everything for dogs. - MARTA SAINT -JAMES:It's another point that I didn't think much about it, but Kramer has Valley Fever also.And Valley Fever is, you know, it's a deadly disease that people sometimes don't realize.If you take your dog to the desert because you want your dog to run or any place that has been landscaped or construction then the ground has been disturbed.It's dangerous because they inhale those spores.In dog parks at least you have a place that is more controlled.Either granite or turf so it's really -- there's so many more benefits and I don't know if you know but the governor declared in November Valley -Fever Awareness Week.And we have a big project with canine Valley Fever to teach people and I have all tht. information in my web site.So it's a lot of other issues in a dog park. But I know, I mean, it's a lot to think about it.But I'm offering my help and my group and for what I see people in Apache Junction are helping too. JEFF BELL:If I- can make a suggestion, Madame Chairman, for everybody's information the Park's Commission is an advisory board to the city Council, okay?So they advise on issues relating to parks and recommend fees and a variety of things like that so that's the role they play they don't have any final say or any real budget control -- although maybe they'd like that -- I would suggest the staff recommendation here is maybe the commission would recommend that staff arrange for Marta to get in front of the council -- same type of a report.You might want to you - Parks and Recreation Meeting -December 1, 2004.14 - you might need keep it a little shorter for the council but we can arrange for that, for council a work session, to see what kind of interest there is there and maybe some specific direction would come back from council to staff to work with you or -- I think that's the quickest approach.I mean I could go back and say, "Oh, I'll go do cost estimates and bring it back for next month".But I think the best thing, the quickest avenue is get her in front of council with her enthusiasm and passion. THERESA NESSER:Actually, you were reading my -- PAT RICHMOND:right now, you know, and it will gain on it.I really think we will. THERESA NESSER:Actually, you were reading my mind because I was sitting here thinking that what we need to do, was, as you said, have Marta go, you know,have a package like this for all the city council members and have Jeff put you in the agenda, you and Jeff go before the city council.They'll have this •-- have it to them in advance, maybe, so that they can read it with their packet, maybe get it to them before then so that they can read it and then you can just talk to them at the city council meeting -=aking, you know, what, ten minutes or something like that, and with the possible giving to them the -- maybe doing this in stages. JEFF BELL:Oh, the option of stages. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I like that -- THERESA NESSER:You know, options -- and you might want to, preliminarily, just kind of roughly say this might be a stage, or this might -- you know, a couple things. JEFF BELL:I'm real at good at roughlying. THERESA NESSER:I think that city council would probably appreciate it if you would roughly give them some options.And -- I mean, I think we are all for it but I don't, to be honest with you Marta, I don't see the city council approving something like this just right up front. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I didn't expect that. THERESA NESSER:But I think by doing it, possibly in stages, I'd like to think that the city council might see the benefits of the feasibility of doing it and letting it grow. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:That's an excellent idea.I didn't -- want I wanted to do when I did all this thinking is I want people to have a picture of how it can look and I know the communities going to get involved. THERESA NESSER:You couldn't have done a better job than this, and I, you know, so this -- the city council really needs to see this. JEFF BELL:Yes, and if you noticed I was a little afraid to put my report out. THERESA NESSER:Does anyone in the audience -- would you like to -- these are open meetings if you would like to make any comments for the record. JEFF BELL:State name and record -- name for the record THERESA NESSER:Oh, I need yes, your name and address for the record. JODY SIMMONS:I'm Jody Simmons, I live at the Pueblo RV Resort, 201 Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.15 East Southern Avenue, here in Apache Junction.There's a great interest in a dog park among the residents of our facility.The older we get, the less able we are to drive clear into Chandler.Our dogs are aging right along with us, and many of them haven't been off a leash in years and we're -- would be most supportive and would add our energy to the fund- raiser and we'll certainly pack the city council meeting. THERESA NESSER:You know, that's a possible suggestion.Maybe all the RV parks could do some fund-raisers. JODY SIMMONS:I can't speak for everyone but I have a feeling that might be true of our residents, I'm looking for affirmation or stones.I know that I would certainly add all the energy that I can towards your cause. THERESA NESSER:Good.Anyone else? JEAN WILSON:I'm from the same park, my name is Jean Wilson, and I like all the ideas and the stages are wonderful.I would suggest that they be fairly firm in that -- start with that -- don't start with too little.Start with like three acres, I mean, if that's what you want. In step two -- and build it in from the start.The better that you have outlined what you want, your more apt to get it than if you leave it vague.So what it would look -- PAT RICHMOND:Yeah, that was my thoughts too, you know, that, you know, if we go with two acres and then we got to expand right away.You know, you might just as well make up our minds, you know, if this is an adequate facility at three acres, let's shoot for it.You know, and even if we just get that fenced the first year. CONRAD PISINSKI:How large is the one out at Chandler? MARTA SAINT -JAMES:They have three.One is about an acre and a half, it's not very functional, but it's here.The other one is over three acres and it's a beautiful but it's not barrier free, like I said, if a person, if they have some disability will have a problem. THERESA NESSER:The city the size of the city of Chandler is three acres, if it's that, is that adequate enough? MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Oh, yeah.Three acres is perfect. THERESA NESSER:Okay. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:You know, I think they may have started, not the one in Alma School, that is the best one because it a some agility equipment and that's where I got the idea for the dogs and when I contacted the sheriff and they said, yeah,we'll do it.That would bring people and people bring money to fund-raisers. JEFF BELL:I believe Chandler actually received partial funding because of that, their police canine unit got a grant -- to help pay for some of that. THERESA NESSER:That's what I was just thinking. JEFF BELL:To help pay for some of that equipment, something along •those lines. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I talked to the grant person in Pinal County, but I need to raise at least $10 thousand and then go through the grant process because that was an idea too.That would be much more -- PAT RICHMOND:Matching funds. THERESA NESSER:That still might be something to look into, if the Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.16 sheriff could use it.That's part of the funding. Yes, ma'am? LAURA DEAN LYTLE:Yes, Madame Chairman, my name is Laura Dean Lytle, I reside at 1333 West 14th Avenue in Apache Junction. One of the things that I like about the park, and I'm very proud of the city's parks, and the way that Apache Junction is growing.I think Apache Junction embraces a way of life that is -- it's personal.The parks, our families, we can go and relax, be casual, we care about our environment, we care about each other and I think a park like this just falls right into that place.SO I think it would be real -- and I thing the city council would be receptive especially to the -- if there's some stages but, of course,I think what everyone says about the size and the fence and some basic 'needs and maybe there are some ways to get some money from other -- the county or city, or somebody that trains dogs.Some of the Seeing Eye dogs.I think there's •a project down in Florence were the people train Seeing Eye Dogs, or something, so there's some kind of a, maybe a state grant there.I don't know. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:We can go to Pet Smart.I saw a Pet Smart park in the City of Phoenix, and so that's there, you know, there're other avenues.We need to start with the land.A fenced area and then we'll go from there.I know it. My nickname was earthquake since- I..was a little girl and I haven't changed a bit.So, when I want something, I get it. THERESA NESSER:Okay, does anyone else have any comments or questions or statements? MAXINE WHITE:I would just like to say -- my name is Maxine White, and I would like to say that today the four of us took our two dogs clear out to Greenfield and tie freeway, 202.That's a long, long way to drive. Now we've been out tC Prospector but people get really upset with the dogs, certainly, if we let them go without the leash and that's -- that's -- that's not the way to do it.It's a lovely place and there are restrooms and so on here but out there, they're using -- they have beau coup soccer fields and they have restrooms, they have water, they have the facilities right next to the dog park.So that -- and then there's a children's park that, between which is a, probably a six-foot fence and the children are there, the dogs are there, and they don't seem to conflict at all. %.MARTA SAINT -JAMES:No, they don't. -MAXINE WHITE:No, there aren't children, you know, running with -- where the dogs would be so it's very safe.And I'm just saying how nice that park is but it's such a long way from Apache Junction, you know, so I would just like to say that. THERESA NESSER:Could we get your address for the record, please. MAXINE WHITE:Yes, it's 201 East Southern, Apache Junction. THERESA NESSER: - Okay, thank you. JODY SIMMONS:May I add one thing? THERESA NESSER:Yes. JODY SIMMONS:I would -- Jody Simmons.I would like to see individual residents involved •as much as possible in fund-raising, the development of this -- because if I have a stock in it, if I bought a Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.17 piece of that fence, I have shown personal ownership in -that.I'll do a better job of taking care of it and the more we feel ,our park, the better we'll care for it.I'd like to see that opportunity offered to as many people as possible.Large corporations are wonderful because they had deep pockets but the little folks work hard too and we'll be a great support to it; MARTA -SAINT -JAMES:That's a good point. PAT -RICHMOND:Maybe Mr. Bell could give us a cost estimate on a ten- foot piece -of fencing and we could put your names on it. JODY SIMMONS:I'll buy the first one. PAT:RICHARD:Well, and there and again, you'd be surprised how many MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I started a petition also, I have quit a few people that signed and dog owners in Apache Junction JEAN WILSON.:I'd like to add -- Jean Wilson, with your phase one-, I would have from the beginning:how people can volunteer and have it publiczed have that all in writing so that you'd -be surprised how fast it moves, so that phase two and three are just all, just ready lined up.But you make it easy from the beginning. THERESA NESSER: - You can help create phase two by ---this is what we need-.And I'm not sure how the city works when it is working on trying to get volunteer maney.I'm not really sure -about . that.I'm pretty sure the city.pretty much wants to know what's -- what is in reality not what might happen. JEFF BELL:Yeah, again we -have to -- PAT 'RICHMOND:The bank might call it the park and rec. department and accept donations-. JEFF BELL:It's-very possible that we enter into a partnership with Mart&s group, DOG,. who has a bank account -already. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:We have $2300. JEFF BELL:So maybe donations could come through there So.:that's a possibility. THERESA NESSER:We'd probably ask them -- if your going to have a park aut there too she'd Probably need to set up an account that would be just lor Apache Junction....- MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Right now I'M under the parks in Gold -Canyon because they are an exempt tax exempt, so we just have a slash Bark Park. -A4 the donations are tax-deductible.Butright now I'm under-the parks in Gold Canyon but that's a minor problem. Just as a footnote also, the vice president, I'm the president of my dog group but. the vice president is Kathy -Olson, her brother Carter Olson, the Pinal County attorney, so he helped us get -establishedias a nonprofit. so we have _got a lot of people -that are helping us THERESA NESSER Good. JEFF BELL:One last thing I need if I could geta sign -in .sheet. -For folks to sign in. just in case we want to follow-up we can .-- •MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Do you mind if I take a picture? JEFF BELL-:NOt at all. MAXINE WHITE:In terms of control, would you say. Parks and Recreation, then city council?Or would it be city, council would be Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.18 remain in charge Of the dog park in ,and then the Parks and Recreation be a subsidiary on that? JEFF BELL:Yes. MAXINE WHITE:How would that work? JEFF BELL:If it's located on city property, city council is our policy makers.Okay?But the operations of the facilities would be done by Parks and Recreation.We administer .and manage the facilities. MAXINE WHITE:So eventually it would be under your control? THERESA NESSER:It would always be under his control.It would be up to city council to give approval for Mr. Bell to proceed to do anything. MAXINE WHITE:So it's important to start there and then have -- THERESA NESSER:That's why it will be important for Marta and Mr. Bell to go before city council and for all of you to show up at the city. council meeting to show your backing for this plan and they will give direction to hilt of what -- how to proceed however to, for whatever. MAXINE WHITE:Now let me ask this 'questiontoo, financially, is it impressive to them that there would be donations?Or -- THERESA NESSER:I would think so.If you could show that you have:a bank account of X amount of dollars sitting there, and your-- what all -- you have a list of fundraising efforts that you're doing to bring in more money 1 think that would 'probably be=qu4te impressive to them.An organized fundraising situation. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:We could have 'oneat Prospector don't tell anybody we have.dogs -there.Well, you know,' we have to have creativity. Thank you so much. JEFF BELL:Thank you very much. THERESA NESSER:Thank you Marta. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Thank you ladies. PAT RICHMOND:We'll have to have you back for a second time. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I'll call you tomorrow. THERESA NESSER:.' Do you want a motion and second for -- to present it to the city council? JEFF BELL:Recommend staff next I don'.t know, yeah. THERESA NESSER:Okay, I'll call for a.motion PAT RICHMOND:I move that we ask Mr. Bell to get -on the city council agenda as soon as possible and to bring this before them and see what t4ir thoughts are on it and have Marta attend that meeting. THERESA NESSER:Okay, and do I have a second?• CONRAD PISINSKI:I'll second. THERESA NESSER:And you want a roll'call vote Mary, for -- MARY MARCH:All ill favor. THERESA NESSER: , Okay, we'll have a voice vote.All in favor signify by saying,- "Aye".Anyone opposed signify by saying, "Nay".Hearing none, then we can proceed with that. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Thank you very much.I'll be leaving for Georgia Friday so I'll call you. THERESA NESSER: Better watch out you'll pick up some more accent there. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:What do you think I'm going there for? •Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.19 Thank you so much. VINCENT:BARR:Say .hello to all the good -folks in Georgia for ,us. MARTA SAINT -JAMES:I love Georgia. I ;shall do that. VINCENT BARR:Pedemont Park is a very:nice place MARTA SAINT -JAMES:Isn't it beautiful?Thank you, thank you ladies. JEFF BELL:See you'earthquake. THERESA NESSER:Okay, we'll move onto the next item, the Park Project Update_ JEFF BELL:. ,Thank you Madame Chairman, a few items.The Rec.-.Center. It's been a few months since we have talked about that, not a whole lot to. report it is moving along fairly well the most recent schedule update that I have received is City Hall, they're talking third week of February to move into the new City Hall and as you know, 60 to 90 days following that we'll be able to move in to the Rec. Center. THERESA NESSER:Third week of when? JfEFF BELL:Third week of February.That's how the schedule stands now, as is normally the case, with development projects, the closer you get the end the further that end goes. PAT RICHMOND:It keeps sliding. -THERESA NESSER:Any anticipation of about what -- I mean it might be as much -- usually within the month or so though. JEFF BELL:Yeah, I'm guessing -we' -fee talking late summer getting into the Rea. Center.Which is not:real disappointing to us because that allows us to get through the summer program.We have a couple thousand people participating in and it kind of slows down there right around August when the kids are going back to school so that ,would be 4 great time for us to move in. Along those lines, staff is working diligently on operating procedures, manual's, fees, hours of operations, all of those things we get to think about over there so as we get further along I'll be sharing some of that information with you before we give it to city council. Small project at Gold Miners, we have a general area lighting project that's going to help the safety of that facility with some lighting:going in around the playground area also where we hold the _dog obedience class it will illuminate that area aiSo.We're waiting, for the contractor to receive the fixtures in,. all the wiring is in, so that. should be happening here in the next week or so. Out at Prospector Park we're putting in.some ADA accessible walkways out in the phase two, .out in the northern side of the park, from the parking lot to the large group Ramada which right now doesn't have any - walkways to it so we're going to be adding -that_We're securing,ptice quotes tight now. In conjunction with the school district, 'their bus barn, maintenance yard, maintenance shop, I'm not sure what they :refer to it as down there but were they store all. the buses, Chuck Paul has, from school district, has worked with us and has given us a little area down there in-a:facility to keep some supplies and put one of our utility vehicles in.That way we don't_ have so much of the transporting of equipment and supplies back and forth froth Prospector Park and so it's -going to be our little south side storage yard,and ultimately, maybe, that's where the guys will:even report Parks and Recreation Meeting:December 1, 2004:20 to work who work that site in town.But right now its .a big savings and just transportation of supplies and materials.Nice of the school district to work with us on that. Last thing, that we've got.our -nose in, involved with, is Phelps Drive landscaping.And 1 know if you've been through Phelps Drive you've see their doing some _road improvements and some of the turn lanes and all that are being improved but also Planned -is that .whole area of being landscaped through there and right across, directly east of the Feed Bag Restaurant, there's kind of a triangle,-bigger piece there, Nick Blake our park superintendent and our cities landscape architect, has some real neat ideas of what we can do there to really spruce that up.And so he's been working on sharing his ideas with the Main Street Program, with the Chamber of Commerce, who've all been involved in those improvements down there, but ultimately, we hope to have a nice setting-down there where -- have a pedestrian walkway with some.maybe art or a water -feature or something so -- Nick has some great ideas and he's promoting that to the best of our abilities.But I don't just want them putting DG we want -- it's a really attractive area and that whole Phelps Drive, as you know, the landscaping is really attractive and -we just wantto finish it up. THERESA NESSER:I want to put in my plug there - that -- with you just said that any time the city's doing anything that .1 think the city needs to have_ -„an arts and crafts -fair, like a lot:of cities do. • And I think it should be right there on Phelps Drive.,Like in conjunction with the Oktoberfest, which I've already spoken to people about and things, because it's just the perfect place -- it could be a street that maybe could be shut off, closed off for part of a day, you know, or something like -that. JEFF BELL:That's all I have then. THERESA NESSER:Okay, we'll move onto then to the Heritage Fund Update. JEFF BELL:Thank you, again, I just remind the commission that I like -to have this as a cost and agenda item to -- in the future if we ever have some grant opportunities, we have to always provide some documentation that the Heritage Fund is discussed and is communicated with on a regular basis so that's why we have it, but I would like to inform you that the last Heritage Grant that we received involved the development of that last phase of Superstition Shadows Park here a month or so ago back.State Parks came out and did an audit of that grant and an audit of out facilities and everything passed with flying colors.So we're in good shape for next go -around because of PAT RICHMOND:They know you do good work. JEFF BELL:Our Success with this. THERESA NESSER:Are we going to be able to apply for another Heritage Grant for BMX or Bark Parks? JEFF BELL:Well, that's an excellent question and what were faced with is since BMX or a dog park facility aren't listed in our park's master plan as a high priority, it's very tough.to sell that because it what appears is that we're picking a pet project, excuse the pun there, and pushing it through when our master plan says the other thing.And many of the other things are in the Capital Facilities Program that's.what Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.21 we're concentrating on so one of my goals here, over the next year or so, is to get that master plan updated to incorporate those types of facilities so we'll be in a position to get grant money. THERESA NESSER:Okay, so maybe move them up on in the master plan. JEFF BELL:Exactly. THERESA NESSER:Okay, is that it on the Heritage Fund? JEFF BELL:Yeah. THERESA NESSER:Okay, we'll move onto Open Space Update. JEFF BELL:All right, I do have a little handout for this, let me go back, back up a little bit. The trust for public land, that's the nonprofit organization who did the -- they did the survey, or polling of some three to four hundred residents and they came and presented the information, their findings, to the city council, which by the way was pretty good.Here's a copy of the PowerPoint presentation that was presented to council and it has all the facts and figures based on their survey results, so one of those we'll pass those around, and I think what I'll encourage you to take this, take a good look at it, we'll stick it back on the agenda next month and spend a little time with it I know we spent a lot of time on the dog park tonight, that would be maybe a good approach. One other thing, City Manager Hoffman is meeting with the folks from the Open Space Task Force, as a matter as we speak.I believe he's having a meeting with them right now.He's trying to get a better understanding of their support, he's sharing with them -- all the department directors were asked here the last week or so to identify all the capital needs. What I call WAG, I better not use that term, it's a wild something guess, for the next 20 years. Okay?And so I came up with a number like $45 million.I mean, you look at it, continue to develop Prospector Park, there's still another phase of Superstition Shadow Park, we have a big need to acquire land down south of the freeway which could easily be $5- $10 million to get a good-sized piece of property down there.The development of that property.Another swimming pool over next 20 years. I mean, you add all those things up it doesn't take long to get -- so what George, or Mr. Hoffman has asked for all departments to think about that so he has all that information for the council when they're looking at this Open Space issue, which is millions and millions of dollars.He wants to put everything into the bowl to sort it before he starts to sort things out.But he's meeting with them and he's talking about that prdcess.What we're going through, council will ultimately get this. Here are all the capital expenditures we see over the next 20 years, how does Open Space fit into it? So that's kind of the approach we're taking and I think it's going to open up some eyes when they start seeing some of these numbers.I think it's going to open up their eyes when they see -- I said 45 million bucks. And I think that's a conservative number for a 20 year time period. THERESA NESSER:Just for Parks and Rec. JEFF BELL:I tried to be a little realistic about what was going to be available but I also wanted to show the need. Our trail system, if we wanted to go out and develop a trail system, and you have a paved surface trail, eight mile long, it's like a road way. Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.22 I mean you have a ten miles wide strip for bicycling and then you have a separate non -paved -- THERESA NESSER:Jeff, did you say ten miles wide? JEFF BELL:Ten miles wide, that's a little wide, ten feet wide. Eight miles long, and then a non -paved surface trail for equestrian purposes or for hiking.Has to be several millions of dollars to put just a trail system in not less the amenities.You've got restroom facilities rest areas, sideage, a whole variety of things.That's the process that this whole Open Space is -- it's like, what you competing against?I'm sure our engineering department they have -- oh, we have $39 million worth of drainage issues in the city and public work we have millions of dollars in street improvements. So all that stuff is going to be thrown into the mix.Once I get that report we'll share that with you too. VINCENT BARR:-- report because next few years go by everything we do will is going to be more and more expensive. THERESA NESSER:Well, it's not only that, but with the situation with the city not knowing where it can expand, you know, it has no idea how big the city will be and how much money it'll be bringing in so it's all guesses. Okay, we'll move on with establishing the date for a facility tour. JEFF BELL:Yes, several months aga we discussed the need for, especially for some of our new fOlks,,to get out and we'll runaround, show them all of are different areas and facilities.So were open to that we'll, we talked about it was staying light a little later in day but, you know, stuff is open for weekends or whatever. CONRAD PISINSKI:And when you say runaround I hope you -- THERESA NESSER:In a van. CONRAD PISINSKI:You don't mean literally, and you don't really mean more than that to run around. JEFF BELL:No, we're going to drive, but you? PAT RICHMOND:Mr. Bell has scooters and skate boards at the skate park. THERESA NESSER:I don't have a van anymore, do you have access to a van? JEFF BELL:We have a brand new one. THERESA NESSER:Okay, I didn't know if you go -- JEFF BELL:A 12 passenger, paid for by grant money. THERESA NESSER:Okay, so what's everyone's thought on that?Some Saturday morning?Because it's definitely not daylight enough afterwards. PAT RICHMOND:Right, I would think it have to be a Saturday. THERESA NESSER:Who doesn't have Saturdays available? VINCENT BARR:I'm open. THERESA NESSER:You're open?What about you gentlemen? RICHARD ANDERSON:Normally, it will be all right. THERESA NESSER:Abnormally it's not? PAT RICHARD:Conrad doesn't do anything. CONRAD PISINSKI:Oh, don't say that.If I know far enough in advance, I can ask for the day off. Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.23 THERESA NESSER:He can ask his wife to let him out of the house. Does anybody want to do this anytime soon?What is your schedule Mr. Bell? VINCENT BARR:I don't think with the holiday season upon us it would be a typical December, but probably January. THERESA NESSER:Do you want to do this on a Saturday? JEFF BELL:I'd be more than happy to do it any time you like. THERESA NESSER:I agree.You know, actually we're getting into the time now where every week that goes by is worse for me because my life changes here in another month.But -- PAT RICHARD:Maybe right after the first of the'year? THERESA NESSER:We'd either have to do it real early after the first of the year and if we don't do it the.going to have to wait 'till April.So -- PAT RICHARD:When's our meeting in January? MARY MARCH:Jar'.uary 2nd. THERESA NESSER:We could do our meeting on a Saturday instead of having it on the Wednesday night. VINCENT BARR:Let's see, New Year's Day is, what, Saturday?Why don't we start the new year off --• THERESA NESSER:You're getting kind of fish-eye looks.Is it actually on the 1st?Or is it on a—Saturday? RICHARD ANDERSON:Yeah, I think so. VINCENT BARR:Yes.Yes, it is.December 31 is a Friday. MARY MARCH:And then January 1st is a Saturday and then the following one is the 8th. THERESA NESSER:Well, you know what?We've got the day before of the 31st, because the 1st falls on a Saturday most people will get Friday off.• VINCENT BARR:I'll be out of town that morning.THERESA BARR:I was going to say early that morning. VINCENT BARR:5e back around lunchtime.Following Saturday, January what? THERESA NESSER:8th. VINCENT BARR:That would actually be a great time.• .PAT RICHARD:That's our anniversary. THERESA NESSER:The 17th is a holiday on a Monday. We could do that orthe 15th.I'm just throwing out dates there. VINCENT BARR:The 15th would work fine with me. .CONRAD PISINSKI:15th is a -- JEFF BELL:Saturday. CONRAD PISINSKI:Second Saturday, or third Saturday?THERESA NESSER:Third Saturday of the month.What's your -- what are you thinking?Share with us. JEFF BELL:I'm going to be out of town'then. THERESA NESSER:Okay, and I'm going to nix the 29th right up front so that only leaves the 22nd. VINCENT BARR:The 22nd works for me. RICHARD ANDERSON:That's fine. THERESA NESSER:Okay. Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.24 PAT RICHARD:I can make it work.Can we schedule that as our meeting? THERESA NESSER:January meeting? PAT RICHARD:Or that's not a good idea.We have other things we need to discuss. THERESA NESSER:But you have to advertise that. MARY MARCH:Your meetings are as needed.The first Wednesday of the month or as needed so if you would want to change it and not have a meeting you could.You need that kind of openness. VINCENT BARR:I think we got enough stuff going on the agenda that we should still have a regular 1st January -- 1st Wednesday of January meeting. MARY MARCH:Okay. VINCENT BARR:And let this Saturday thing be fully focused on reviewing of the parks. THERESA NESSER:What if, what if on the 5th then, it's a Wednesday, what's everybody's schedule if we just came in early in the afternoon and went around to all the parks and then had our meeting on the 5th? PAT RICHMOND:It depends on how everybody's schedule. =RESA NESSER:That's what I'm saying, so I'm asking, anyone that works, I mean I could -- MONA BARTON:I could do it.—- THERESA NESSER:Is that a problem with you getting -- with work? VINCENT BARR:Probably for the month of January but the month of February I would be open to that.Because that would give me enough -- PAT RICHMOND:But then again, I mean, and not to let you out of the meetings, but I mean, we could still have a quorum. THERESA NESSER:Well, it's not so much that, I think the whole purpose of this especially with the new people -- PAT RICHMOND:But what I'm saying is then if he missed the meeting, maybe you could get here for the tour? THERESA NESSER:Yeah, but the tour would be during the day.The meeting would be -- PAT RICHMOND:That's why -- oh V:NCENT BARR:I mean, if I decide to take a day --- if we was to pick a day, you know, a weekday, like the first Wednesday of February, that's plenty enough notice I can just call them up and -- "Hay, I'm taking the day off". - You know, but January -- the first Wednesday of January is just so soon after the holidays and everything that it would be tough.Probably, if everybody else wanted to do it that first January -- first Wednesday of January I could probably twist an arm. THERESA NESSER:Oh, you know what?I can't be there.I just realized when you just said that, that's the first Wednesday and I go to a meeting every month.In Coolidge on the first Wednesday. PAT RICHMOND:We're having a terrible time here.THERESA NESSER:Come on guys, help me. PAT RICHMOND:What about the next Wednesday in January? THERESA NESSER:The 12th, well, but then that's moving our meeting. We were going to try -- we could go to the thing and then come straight -- - Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004.25 what about any Mondays In February? PAT RICHMOND:Maybe we could do it our first meeting in February. THERESA NESSER:Well, not our meeting but on a Monday.I'm just throwing that out too.That's -- I have my own agendas there. PAT RICHMOND:That would give Vincent a little more time to schedule work and stuff but if we did it in February. THERESA NESSER:February 2nd?Now, there again, I have a meeting on the first Wednesday of every month.JEFF BELL:You want me to go take pictures of the parks and bring them to you? PAT RICHMOND:I've been there.I know where all the parks are. THERESA NESSER:I still think -- you know, I think it's a good thing to just see things. CONRAD.PISINSKI:Would it be possible to do it on a Sunday?Sunday afternoon. THERESA NESSER:Well, I don't think people want to give up Sunday's, but -- CONRAD PISINSKI:Couple of hours. THERESA NESSER:Well, we had a -- we got a -- RICHARD ANDERSON:We have the 22nd. THERESA NESSER:We have the 22nd on Saturday.Let's do it the 22nd. PAT RICHMOND:Okay, lets do it then. VINCENT BARR:The 22nd of January?. CONRAD PISINSKI:I'm not going to be in town in the morning. JEFF BELL:I'm going to Laughlin the week before I might not need a job. do. PAT RICHMOND:Well, you can just come for the heck of it same as we THERESA NESSER:I told you about that rich guy who went to Las Vegas in the $150,000 Mercedes and came home in a $300,000 Greyhound bus. •JEFF BELL:1/22/04. ALL:'05 JEFF BELL:Yeah, that's it. MARY MARCH:Anybody preference on .time? MONA BARTON:Early. THERESA NESSER:How early is early?What's everyone's preference? PAT RICHMOND:I'm not up before 5:00 so. VINCENT BARR:HMV long is this going to take?-Going to take, what a copple hours to do this?• JEFF BELL:10:00 to 12:00 VINCENT BARR:That's what I was kind of thinking.- THERESA NESSER:10:00 to 12:00, 9:00-to 12:00, 9:00 to 11:00? RICHARD ANDERSON:Something like that, yeah. THERESA NESSER:9 o'clock, 8 o'clock? RICHARD ANDERSON:Why don't we do 9 o'clock? THERESA NESSER:9 o'clock?9:00 a.m. meet right here.Mary will remind us, please?- MARY MARCH:Sure. •THERESA NESSER:Send us.an Email?• MARY MARCH:What's your -- I need everyone's Email addresses. JEFF BELL: , That's a good idea. Parks and Recreation Meeting December I, 2004.26 THERESA NESSER:Let me tell you, it really works.MARY MARCH:Yeah, I've been meaning to get this and I'm glad you said that, I even wcote myself a note to ask you. THERESA NESSER:Somebody got a piece of paper and we'll just write them all down for you. MARY MARCH:PaSs it around and you can all write them down. THERESA NESSER:Okay, we've established Saturday, January 22nd 2005 at 9 o'clock for everyone to meet right here and Jeff will chauffeur us around town to see all the park facilities. Okay, we'll move on to new business.First item is review of park system and amenities. JEFF BELL:We'll I guess on the 22nd we're gonna review, them in person but for tonight I just -- going to provide you with a -- and I think it was Commissioner Barton who said she's not even real familiar with what all the things we have so here's a listing of existing amenities and existing facilities. THERESA NESSER:Oh, I like that. JEFF BELL:Address, amenities, the size and future plans if it's not already fully improved.Anywhere where talks about master plan in the plans that means we have a .master'plan exits and we can develop it in accordance to that -- THERESA NESSER:_.Do you have an:ex ,ara one of these?No?That's okay JEFF BELL:We can run:a copy if we -- THERESA NESSER:Yeah. JEFF BELL:So not sure what -the commission's -- then like I said, on the 22nd we will visit all these locations so now*you have something in writing which you can see and then we'll visit those sites.If there's more that the commission would like well, I'd be glad to address any issues. VINCENT BARR:Very nice.I'll hang on to this for our January trip. CONRAD PISINSKI:You didn't make enough -- RICHARD ANDERSON:Conrad needs one. THERESA NESSER:I'm sorry I'm writing.Do we need anything -- I'm not sure -- I can't remember, I mean discussed other than wanting to know JEFF BELL:Mona said something w4t areas we were responsible for. thfs -- because some of these aren't I vaguely remember this even being what we had.Was it -7 . :.bout just become more familiar with c)mething along those lines.And -- there aren't a whole lot 7 - isn't a lot of recreational value to them we are responsible for the maintenance of them.So that gives you an idea of what areas -- •THERESA NESSER:This is a nice little thing, exactly what -- what they are I suppose this could JEFF BELL:This document is actually part of -- Parks and Recreation Master Plan inventories of you know, telling you even -- our current master plan current facilities but we have updated now to incorporate all the new stuff that's happened over the last few years. THERESA NESSER:Okay, 'well, if anyone has no comments or questions or anything we'll go see all these places on January 22nd but otherwise we'll move on to this next item which is a request for agenda items. Parks and .Recreation Meeting December 1 '2004.27 Which will be, Park Project Update -- PAT RICHMOND:Heritage Fund. THERESA NESSER:Heritage Fund, Open SpaceUpdate. RICHARD ANDERSON:Dog park update? THERESA-.NESSER:I'm trying to think where, well:the dog park -- we'll --we won't be on the calendar by that time. JEFF BELL:Right.They're not having the second council meeting in December so we're going to meet prior to the day -- THERESA NESSER:Right.SO we can put that on me agenda in February. RICHARD ANDERSON:Yeah, okay. THERESA NESSER:Okay, what if -- just because it's on my mind, I haven't -- nothing else has ever been discussed about the BMX.What exactly ever happened with that?And I know it's kind of in limbo, but how in limbo?What is -- JEFF BELL:Information has been presented:to:the _City council. THERESA NESSER:I can't remember -- couldn't remember. JEFF BELL:And -- THERESA NESSER:That's ,where it went? JEFF BELL:That's where -it went. THERESA NESSER:Okay, do we need to ever. -- JEFF BELL:No directions was ever received by counsel to do anything more with it.It was informati.onal piece and, again, I mentioned earlier to the group,that we're starting to discuss capital facilities programinumber two and I think that's what maybe the council is thinking that would end up. THERESA NESSER:Okay, so we don't need to put anything Like that on the_agenda, to discuss for any reason? JEFF BELL:No, if for some reasan -- THERESA NESSER:.What about that the topic of discussing changing Capital Facilities Plan?-.Do we need any discussion on: that?. JEFF BELL:Yes, at some point:Why -don't you leave that one from ready for -- it is just a matter of getting -- find us some time to get that little project.It's_been on our radar screen for awhile, and if I have the time.we'll get it on the agenda, if not then it might -- THERESA NESSER You'll take care of that though.Okay, anybody else?Any items?Any -thing? PAT RICHMOND:Have we heard anything about park being destroyed?% 'CONRAD PISINSKI:Oh, the fire-. THERESA NESSER:Oh, the fire. JEFF BELL:No new news. PATRICHMOND:'No new news.. JEFF BELL:.The equipment iS being replaced next:week. PAT ,RICHMOND:Oh.• THERESA NESSER:What about -- remember you gave-us:_that handout about :a year ago, about vandalism in the parks? PATiRICEMOND:We haven't done anything with that. Has: it lessened since we've had the Park Rangers? THERESA NESSER:Maybe we could that on the.agenda-,and see what's happening -- or. Parks .and•Recreation Meeting -December 1, 2004.-28 JEFF BELL:We could.And yes, I think the Park Ranger Program has =signifLcantly reduced.that type -of-activity.Has it completely stopped it? PAT RICHMOND:Yeah, I don't think we're evergoing to completely stop it.Some kidS hollered at me the other day -- THERESA NESSER:Well, if you think it needs to be discussed -- PAT RICHMOND:At the skate park and I said, "Hey, you burned,down your bike park".They said, "What do you mean?"I said, "Well, you know, the cost of replacing that playground equipment", I said, "There went half your bike park".I said, "So, let's speak up and see who did it".I said, "Maybe we could get some restitution for that". THERESA NESSER:You keep destroying this, you'll never get this. PAT RICHMOND:You keep replacing. THERESA NESSER:Wouldn't you like to put a sign up there that says: You can't get have this because the money has to be spent on this. PAT RICHMOND:I don't have a problem telling them. CONRAD PISINSKI:-- BMX Bike Park back a year because the money's got to go to replacing the playground equipment. RICHARD ANDERSON:That's right. THERESA NESSER:Okay, any other agenda items?Hearing none.Going, going gone.--- We'll move on the next item.Which would be to establish our next meeting date which would be January 5th, 2005 at 6 p.m. here that the Parks and Rec. Conference Room. Oh, I do have -- can I go backwards? PAT RICHMOND:You're the boss. THERESA NESSER:Put the discussion of -- now city council won't vote on -- by January about replacing a position?Okay, forget that. JEFF BELL:I'll cover it under staff report. THERESA NESSER:Okay, public comments? JODY SIMMONS:I appreciate that you let our group join you this evening. THERESA NESSER:Can we get your name and address for the record, please? JODY SIMMONS:Jody Simmons, 201 East Southern Avenue, Number 63, and I -thank you all for being so open to people attending your meeting and we'll help in any way that we can. THERESA NESSER:Good.Thank you. •Can I have a motion for adjournment? PAT RICHMOND:So moved. THERESA NESSER:A second? CONRAD PISINSKI:Second. THERESA NESSER:We'll have a voice vote.All in favor of adjourning, can I hear ayes?Any nays? PAT RICHMOND:No.• THERESA NESSER:I want to thank Rhoda for doing her thing.Quit an experience. Meeting adjourned at 7:47 p.m. Parks and Recreation Meeting December 1, 2004. RICHMOND:So moved. 4444%141..:THERESA -MSESER:A. second?' CONRAD PISINSKI: THERESA NESSER:W l Le a voice vote.All in favor of adjourning, can 'ear ayes?Any na PAT RIgOrIOND:No.•/' ESA NESSER:I want to -thank Rhoda for _cloT140,4her .thing. an experience. APPROVED: Theresa A. Nesser, ChairMan A-0.4// Conrad Pisinski, Vice Chairman