HomeMy WebLinkAbout2008-02-05 City Council Regular MinutesCITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
The regular meeting of the City Council of the City of
Apache Junction, Arizona, was held on February 5, 2008, at the
Apache Junction City Council Chambers pursuant to the notice
required by law.
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Insalaco called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m.
INVOCATION
Councilmember Wilson gave the Invocation.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Councilmember Dietz led the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Councilmembers Present:Mayor Insalaco
Vice Mayor Eck
Councilmember Barker
Councilmember Dietz
Councilmember Serdy
Councilmember Severs
Councilmember Wilson
Staff Present:
Others Present:
City Manager George Hoffman
Assistant City Manager Bryant Powell
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
City Attorney Joel Stern
Interim Public Safety Dir. Tom Kelly
Development Svcs. Director Brad Steinke
Economic Dev. Dir. Steve Filipowicz
Grants Specialist Roger Hacker
Program Coordinator Heather Patel
Asst. to the City Manager Ruth Giese
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City Prosecutor Mary Anne Coyne
ACCEPTANCE OF CONSENT AGENDA
)Vice Mayor Eck MOVED THAT
THE CONSENT AGENDA BE ACCEPTED AS PRESENTED; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $30,000
TO ARIZONA TACTICAL, LLC FOR THE PURCHASE OF BULLETPROOF VESTS
AND PEPPER SPRAY FOR NEWLY HIRED POLICE OFFICERS AND REPLACEMENT
OF EXPIRED EQUIPMENT FOR CURRENT OFFICERS AND SWAT UNIFORMS AND
DUTY GEAR SWAT EQUIPMENT TO REPLACE WORN OUT AND/OR DAMAGED
EQUIPMENT FOR CURRENT AND NEW EQUIPMENT FOR RECENTLY APPOINTED
SWAT OFFICERS; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $50,000
TO UNIVERSAL POLICE SUPPLY COMPANY FOR THE PURCHASE OF UNIFORMS
FOR NEW OFFICERS AND REPLACEMENT OF WORN OUT AND/OR DAMAGED
UNIFORMS FOR CURRENT OFFICERS; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $36,000
TO EAST VALLEY UNIFORMS FOR THE PURCHASE OF UNIFORMS FOR NEW
OFFICERS AND REPLACMENT OF WORN OUT AND/OR DAMAGED UNIFORMS OF
CURRENT OFFICERS; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $30,000
TO CLH INTERNATIONAL, INC. FOR REPLACEMENT OF BROKEN OR
INOPERABLE MOBILE DATA COMPUTERS AND ACCESSORIES FOR DEPARTMENT
PATROL VEHICLES; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $36,000
TO DELL MARKETING L.P. FOR VARIOUS COMPUTER RELATED EQUIPMENT
WHICH INCLUDES LAPTOP COMPUTERS FOR THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS
DIVISION, REPLACEMENT OF OBSOLETE COMPUTERS, PRINTERS, MONITORS,
AND PURCHASE OF ROUTERS, SERVERS AND SOFTWARE FOR THE DEPARTMENT
OF PUBLIC SAFETY; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR AN EXPENDITURE NOT TO EXCEED $50,000
TO PREMISE ONE FOR THE INSTALLATION AND UPKEEP OF BUILDING
NETWORK WIRING, PURCHASE AND INSTALLATION OF EQUIPMENT FOR THE
MOBILE COMMAND VAN AND EMERGENCY OPERATIONS CENTER, AND CABLING
AND THE MAINTENANCE OF CISCO ROUTING SYSTEM; AND
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THAT THE AWARD OF BID FOR PROJECT NO. PW-2007-16, MATERIAL AND
LABOR TO LOWER AND RAISE MANHOLES AND WATER VALVES AT VARIOUS
LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT THE CITY, BE AWARDED TO SPECIALTY COMPANIES
GROUP LLC ON A PER ITEM BASIS IN THE AMOUNT OF $100 FOR
MOBILIZATION, $150 TO LOWER MANHOLE, $265 TO RAISE MANHOLE, $150
TO LOWER WATER VALVE, $240 TO RAISE WATER VALVE, $105 TO INSTALL
A SURVEY MONUMENT, AND $250 FOR TRAFFIC CONTROL; AND THAT THE
MAYOR BE AUTHORIZED TO SIGN THE AGREEMENT PENDING FINAL APPROVAL
AS TO FORM BY THE CITY ATTORNEY; AND
THAT THE RECEIPT OF THE COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDED JUNE 30, 2007 BE ACKNOWLEDGED; AND
THAT THE RECEIPT OF THE BRANCH LIBRARY SPACE NEEDS PLAN FOR THE
APACHE JUNCTION PUBLIC LIBRARY BE ACKNOWLEDGED.
Councilmember Dietz SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
AWARDS, PRESENTATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS
Mayor Insalaco read .a proclamation declaring February 1 through
29, 2008 "Career and Technical Education Month" on behalf of the
Pinal County Tech Consortia.
Mayor Insalaco read a proclamation declaring February 23 through
March 1, 2008 "Entrepreneurship Week" on behalf of the Pinal
County Tech Consortia.
Community Relations Manager Pat Brenner gave a video
presentation entitled "Council Special Report to Citizens" which
featured the mayor and council discussing the Council Work Plan
for Fiscal Year 2007-2008.
CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Mr. James Campbell, 3700 S. Ironwood Drive, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding the speeders in his mobile home
park.
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Mrs. Claire Lansing, Saguaro Fitness Center, 305 N. Plaza Drive,
Apache Junction, addressed the council regarding a comprehensive
rehabilitation service for the community that her business
provides and voiced concern about a future medical facility that
might be built with grant funds.
Mr. Steven White, 105 N. Delaware, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding artists' constitutional rights.
Mr. John Kantowski, 835 W. Windsong, Apache Junction, addressed
the council to congratulate the city on their video and spoke on
the Packages From Home program for the military in Iraq and
Afghanistan.
Mr. John Taylor, 852 W. 19th Avenue, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding a letter he received in the mail on his
semi -trailer that he uses for his business at the industrial
park.
Mr. Nelson Kaesberg, 3700 S. Ironwood Drive #161, Apache
Junction, addressed the council regarding the mediocrity in the
police department since Glenn Walp left.
Mr. Louis Babin, 2191 S. Belair Road, Apache Junction, addressed
the council in support of the artists and the adoption of Option
X.
Mr. Charlie Bunten, 1680 N. Starr Road, Apache Junction,
addressed the council to call for improved council communication
with the voters.
Mr. Larry Placencio, 1274 N. Delaware, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding the water runoff on the easement
at Delaware and Roundup.
Mr. Steve Flynn, 305 N. Acacia, Apache Junction, addressed the
council regarding hiring only people that are needed.
Mr. Bo Randall, 1361 E. 18th Avenue, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding the police department bringing forward a
new towing policy.
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Mr. Ernest Imbeault, 2835 W. Cody, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding Option X.
Mr. Jim Stephens, 3700 S. Ironwood Drive, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding comments allegedly made by the
mayor and to state he would be running in the recall election.
Mr. Earl Binds, 2210 E. Scenic, Apache Junction, addressed the
council regarding the two notices he received regarding his
cargo containers.
Ms. Christa Rizzi, 1755 S. Sombrero Road, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding safety issues around school
zones.
Ms. Alice Hill, 2280 E. Scenic, Apache Junction, submitted a
request to speak form and then declined to speak.
Mrs. Shannon Flynn, 305 N. Acacia, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding a letter from a police officer's wife that
appeared in the newspaper regarding their getting special
treatment from animal control, requested the city manager
investigate this and get back to her on it, and to announce she
would also be running in the recall election.
Ms. Pam Mosher, Monterey Drive, Apache Junction, addressed the
council in support of cargo containers and urged the council to
get on with more important business.
Mr. Charles Duffy, 768 S. Warner Drive, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding a semi -trailer on his property
.and a letter he received.
Mr. Greg Fesko, 2373 N. Grand Drive, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding the shipping container on his property and
the letters he received.
•Mr. Mike Burton, 2125 W. Superstition Blvd., Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding cargo containers at his business
,and a letter he received.
Councilmember Barker directed staff to talk to Mrs. Lansing
regarding the grants; that public works or streets contact Mr.
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Placencio and Ms. Rizzi, the latter to determine if U-turn signs
can be installed or if anything can be done.
Councilmember Severs commented he would like to see if they can
do the Packages From Home program mentioned by Mr. Kantowski
with some collections at the city booth for Lost Dutchman Days.
He would like to send them something to show that the council
cares.
Vice Mayor Eck requested Program Coordinator Heather Patel to
get with Mrs. Lansing and explain the grant process; he would
really like to compliment her because she has done what the
community needs are before she has thought of her own
livelihood.He stated he would like to see no U-turn signs at
the mentioned locations; and that Mr. Kantowski's donation boxes
at events is a good idea.He believes the city promotes the
legal arts all it can and he wished they could get it all
resolved.He directed the city manager to report on the animal
control incident to the council.He acknowledged there is a
water problem for Mr. Placencio and asked if they could take a
new direction on that and try to help these people out.He
believes the 3 local tow companies are enough and wanted someone
look into it.He stated Tom Kelly was handpicked by Glenn Walp,
the people saying things should be ashamed and that he has his
support.He does not believe the mayor used the words Mr.
Stephens says he used and he feels it is derogatory for him to
even make that comment.He asked Mr. Duffy leave his
information so that he could be contacted.
Mayor Insalaco stated he believes all the comments are being
made by one owner that owns 3 tow companies and he is out to put
the local companies out of business.He would like to have it
looked into that what they are talking about is not in the
works.
Mayor Insalaco called for a ten minute break.
Mayor Insalaco reconvened the meeting.
,CALL TO THE PUBLIC (continued)
'Mayor Insalaco announced that one speaker at Call to the Public
had been missed.
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Mr. Joseph Schnier, 3700 S. Ironwood Drive #146, Apache
Junction, addressed the council regarding a police officer
getting special treatment from animal control and calling for an
internal investigation as to why taxpayers are funding services
outside the city limits.
CITY MANAGER'S REPORT
City Manager George Hoffman commented on the library lobby being
reopened, free AARP tax help being available at the library, and
a bond issue for street improvements being researched.
ANNOUNCEMENT OF CURRENT EVENTS
None.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
APPLICATION FOR INTERIM PERMIT, NEW
LICENSE, LIMITED LIABILITY CO.,
,SERIES 10 LIQUOR LICENSE FOR AJ'S
MINI MART/TEE JAY FUELS
City Clerk Kathleen
Connelly briefed the council on the item.She stated there are
no objections from either internal staff or the fire district.
The applicant is present in the event council may have any
questions.
Mayor Insalaco requested the
applicant address the council.
Mr. Randy Nations, Arizona
Liquor Industry Consultants, representing the owners, addressed
,the council.He commented on the changes made in the city since
he last worked here in 1976 as a highway patrolman.He was
there to answer any questions.
Mayor Insalaco opened the
public hearing on the item.There being no one wishing to
speak, he closed the public hearing and reopened the item to
council discussion.There being no discussion, he called for a
motion.
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,FEBRUARY 5, 2008
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Councilmember Dietz MOVED
THAT THE APPLICATION FOR AN INTERIM PERMIT, NEW LICENSE, LIMITED
LIABILITY COMPANY, SERIES 10 LIQUOR LICENSE FOR AJ'S MINI
MART/TEE JAY FUELS, SUBMITTED BY JAGDEEP SINGH SARAN, BE
RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL TO THE ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF LIQUOR
LICENSES AND CONTROL.
Councilmember Severs SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
APPLICATION FOR TEMPORARY EXTENSION
OF PREMISES FOR FRATERNAL ORDER OF
EAGLES
)City Clerk Kathleen
Connelly briefed the council on the item.She stated the Eagles
want to host a chili cook -off within the next few weeks.They
are requesting an extension of premises to extend their service
area just for this event for a limited period of time.There
are no objections and the applicant is present.
Mayor Insalaco requested the
applicant address the council.The applicant declined unless
there were questions.There were no questions.He then opened
the public hearing on the item.There being no one wishing to
speak, he closed the public hearing and opened the item to
council discussion.There being no discussion, he called for a
motion.
Vice Mayor Eck MOVED THAT THE
APPLICATION FOR AN EXTENSION OF PREMISES FOR THE FRATERNAL ORDER
OF EAGLES FOR LOST DUTCHMAN DAYS, FEBRUARY 16, 2008, SUBMITTED
BY CHARLES IVAN KINSEY, BE RECOMMENDED FOR APPROVAL TO THE
ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF LIQUOR LICENSES AND CONTROL.
Councilmember Severs SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
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The motion carried.
SELECTION OF PROJECTS FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2008 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT FUNDS AND STATE SPECIAL
PROJECTS FUNDS
)Program Coordinator
Heather Patel briefed the council on the item.She stated this
is the second public hearing to collect additional input and
then ask the council to direct staff on which projects to move
forward with for the applications.The applications are due to
the started in May.There are two accounts, the Regional
Account estimated at $260,000 and the State Special Projects
fund for up to $300,000.On December 18 council directed staff
to look at a short list of projects and on January 15 staff
advised council which projects were eligible for each funding
source.She gave a brief description of each project.The next
step is to come back with resolutions on February 19 and March 4
to officially adopt the applications being submitted.
Councilmember Dietz commented
they would be doing both projects for the State Special Projects
that were listed.He asked if there were long waiting lists for
both housing rehabilitation and emergency rehabilitation.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated they are seeing a larger increase in the emergency
rehabilitation.
Councilmember Dietz asked if
it is much larger.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated it is much larger.
Councilmember Dietz commented
it seems it would be better to go with the larger waiting list.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel agreed.There are several factors that make the emergency
rehabilitation program more attractive not only to the citizens
but to the city at this point in time.The list is a lot larger
and people are more interested in signing up for that one.
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Councilmember Dietz commented
their chances of receiving that one is much greater for the
Special Projects.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated they could do either one.Any housing component or
project is very attractive to the state.
Vice Mayor Eck asked what the
cost would be for the first street improvement listed, the one
for Cedar between Broadway and 16th Avenue.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated the cost estimate is $1.6 million.This would just
be a component of that.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
would be interested if it was going to go down halfway to two-
thirds.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated they would have to identify a specific section that
they would pay for with the Community Development Block Grant
funds.
Councilmember Barker asked if
the drainage was very specific for the property between Idaho
and Buena Vista and that it was considered not eligible.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated the area, as a whole, is not 51% or more low to
moderate income.However, she was told that if she did a survey
it would probably come up as reaching that point.That does
take additional staff resources.
Councilmember Barker
commented that staff is on a deadline.
Mayor Insalaco opened the
public hearing on the item.
Mr. Louis Babin, 2191 S.
Belair, Apache Junction, addressed the council.He asked if the
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street improvements involved widening the streets, it might help
the city with the PM -10 standards by keeping the dust from being
blown around on the streets.He asked if any street improvement
that is reasonable and within the budget would help with the PM-
10 standards.He would like to see some of the money used for
that.
Mr. Elliott Fisher, 547 E.
Quail, Apache Junction, addressed the council.He commented
that with all the budget issues and where housing is today, he
wondered if the council might consider rolling back the impact
fees that were imposed recently.
Mayor Insalaco closed the
public hearing with no one else wishing to speak.He reopened
the item to council discussion.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
agreed with Louis about trying to get as many streets paved as
possible.They have been trying to get Cedar done for 8 years
now.This amount of money would do about a third of one small
street.It will take something a whole lot more to get the
streets done.
Councilmember Serdy commented
he would like to see them in the order they have them for the
Regional Account.If they get the downtown redeveloped, it will
help these other things take care of themselves.They cannot
ignore that area, especially with Baseline and Idaho being taken
care of.They need to take care of the downtown and these other
things will fall in and benefit from the downtown being done.
Councilmember Dietz asked
what the downtown development would entail insofar as the
$260,000.
Program Coordinator Heather
Patel stated they are basically looking at the Grand Hotel
property and doing a plan on it.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated this is an opportunity to bring in a group
of consultants to help create the vision of what they want for
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the downtown, translate that into a plan and then into an
implementation strategy.It will start the ball rolling.
Vice Mayor Eck and
Councilmember Severs agreed with the order cited by
Councilmember Serdy.
Councilmember Dietz stated
they should go towards the emergency rehabilitation for the
State Special Projects.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed,
stating they would have to move the emergency up.
Councilmember Dietz commented
it seems to be the more important as there is a much longer
waiting list.
Mayor Insalaco closed the
discussion with no further comments and called for a motion.
Councilmember Barker MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING PROJECTS BE SELECTED FOR FISCAL YEAR 2008
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT FUNDS AND SPECIAL STATE FUNDS:
THAT THE DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT COME UNDER THE REGIONAL ACCOUNT
SECTION AND THAT EMERGENCY REHABILITATION COME UNDER THE STATE
SPECIAL PROJECTS.
Vice Mayor Eck SECONDED THE
MOTION.
VOTE:•Unanimous.
The motion carried.
OLD BUSINESS
None.
NEW BUSINESS
None.
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COUNCIL DIRECTION TO STAFF
ADMINISTRATIVE ZONING DISCRETION
)Development Services
Director Brad Steinke briefed the council on the item.He
stated their work program has talked about making more user-
friendly regulations or administrative procedures for zoning
issues rather than having to go through a formal process.
Discretion would have to be given to staff to make common sense
decisions.At the December 17 work session they talked about
the 10% reduction which would waive 10% on dimensional zoning
requirements such as setbacks, height and offsets.They could
also do surgical changes to the zoning code regulations, such as
the code now requires a trailer to be placed at the back of the
property but it could not be physically done so the code would
have to be amended to give staff discretion to place the trailer
in a more suitable location.A third possibility is a hearing
officer that would hear the appeals on requests for variances
and apply the same standards as those used by the board of
adjustment and try to shortcut the process.If they are not
satisfied with that person's decision, they would then go to the
board of adjustment.Another, mentioned by some council
members, is somehow giving staff the ability to apply common
sense to situations in particular characteristics of a property
to allow variation to zoning standards when no one is harmed.
He is asking for formal direction on this matter.He advised
that the city attorney would like to speak to the council on the
last issue.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he does not recommend the fourth option.The language is
vague.There would be arbitrary and capricious lawsuits if it
was passed.There have to be black and white rules if anything
is being done with variances.Under Title 9, it is the board of
adjustment that decides variances.They could appoint a hearing
officer that could do what the board of adjustment does.If the
aggrieved party does not like the decision, they can then go to
the board of adjustment.Once they have 100,000 people, the
city council becomes the board of adjustment.
Vice Mayor Eck commented it
confuses him to not have a policy that staff follows.If the
policy is wrong, they need to change it in somehow.He does not
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see how someone could say that they do not like what was said to
them because it is against policy so they would want to get the
supervisor out there and see if they can get him to change his
mind.He does not see how that would work.
Councilmember Barker
commented the question is whose common sense.The mayor's
common sense and her own common sense may not be so common.It
is very shaky.
Councilmember Severs
commented he thinks anyone's common sense would be nice at this
point in time.They have a property with a travel trailer where
the trailer is in the front yard and there is no backyard.
There is no way to put a travel trailer back there.They need
to have somebody who can practice common sense go out and look
at the property, say there is no physical way to put it in the
backyard, and suggest another place to put it.That is what has
happened in this last case.
Vice Mayor Eck asked him if
he had moved it.
Councilmember Severs stated
he did.He went out and moved it, putting it into a different
location in the yard.It was not in the back yard, but based on
staff's discretion and common sense they found another location
that would work and make it simpler on the citizen.That is
what needs to happen here.If they have to change the wording
so that it says in the rear or side yard when possible, then
that is what they need to do.They need to keep it as simple as
possible.He knows Joel does not like this because it is
arbitrary and capricious and could get us lawsuits.There needs
to be a way to simplify.If it means giving them a little bit
of discretion based on a field inspection, that they could not
go by the law the way it is written, then they need to look at
the intent of the law, not the letter of the law in some cases.
Not all circumstances apply to every single person in every
single circumstance.It does not work.
Councilmember Barker
commented she thinks that is what Brad stated earlier, before
the common sense thing.The problem is, he disagrees with some
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of the common sense decisions that have been made by staff.
That is not a good way to do it.He already disagrees with
those regulations as have many other councilmembers in the past
and there will be more in the future.There has to be some kind
of guideline to help them.The common sense aspect needs to be
thrown out and we need to make these ordinances have a little
give.It is not common sense.It is still the ordinance and it
still follows them.
Councilmember Severs stated
it is flexibility.
Councilmember Barker stated
it is still the ordinance.The point that Joel was trying to
make is to make an ordinance that people can actually follow,
not one they can use as a bargaining chip.
Councilmember Severs
commented they cannot always follow it under every circumstance.
He asked how they would deal with that.
Councilmember Barker stated
his solution and someone else's may not be the same thing.
There has to be some kind of a line.
Councilmember Dietz asked if
the hearing officer would seem to be the logical way to go so
that they do not have to go through the board of adjustment and
pay all the fees.This person could review and look at it and
make a judgment on it.They would still have the option of
going to the board of adjustment after that.
Councilmember Severs
commented that would be a very logical way of doing it but he
thinks there is one that is simpler; to give staff the authority
based on certain criteria.This one was simple; could it go in
the backyard and the answer was it could not.He asked where
else it could be placed based on the criteria.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he thinks they would get into trouble by giving staff the
responsibility to make the judgment call.
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Councilmember Severs asked
what if staff goes out and does the field inspection and brings
their findings back to the director.He could then say, based
on the certain criteria and his qualified staff member's
investigation, it will not work and they would need to find a
reasonable way for it to work.It is still staff discretion
with the director overlooking it.They would not have to go
through the whole process of appointing an appeals officer.He
thinks that they need to simplify.
Councilmember Barker stated
he is saying he would like to have the supervisor be the last
word when things are not quite where the zoning might have them
on the books.The supervisor would have the responsibility for
having the last word.She asked if that is what he meant.
Councilmember Severs stated
he liked that idea.Brad is a very logical and reasonable
person.
Councilmember Barker asked
what would happen when they get another person in that position.
Councilmember Severs stated
they need to make sure that whoever they get in that position in
the future is the same, very logical, reasonable, citizen-
friendly, business -friendly, and positive -minded.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if they
already had that.He thinks they do.
Councilmember Severs stated
they do not.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if Brad
could make a logical decision from the way the rules are now.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they are under the black and white letter of
the law.They cannot vary that unless the law gives you some
flexibility.How they craft the ordinance is the question.The
city attorney is very uncomfortable with a blanket statement.
It could apply to certain types of issues where there are
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measureable standards and criteria; that would be an exercise in
creativity.They would have to sit down and hammer it out.
They would have to think long and hard on how to do it and how
to apply it.He asked if there is an interest in the 10%
reduction rule.Other communities have done it and it has been
declared legal.It gives some wiggle room in some instances,
but it will not satisfy everyone.
Councilmember Severs asked
for examples of where the 10% reduction rule would work.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he would like to look at it for both pre -and
post -development.An example would be someone wanting to build
a shed with a side setback being ten feet.The applicant wants
to be within 9' due to certain criteria.Staff can say they
meet the criteria and give them that setback.Or there is the
case where it is discovered after it has already been built that
a mistake by the surveyor was made.They could allow it to
exist as 10% does not cause disruption to the visible eye or the
intent and spirit of the law.It has been used by other
communities.The city recently used it with parking.It is not
a panacea; it will not help a few people we know.
Vice Mayor Eck stated he sees
no problem with that.
Councilmember Severs
commented it worked very well with the parking regulations.It
would work when they have specific numbers.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated the next one, using the trailer in the
backyard situation, if they had an ordinance on the residential
parking requirement, could say that the requirement is to park
the trailer in the side or the rear when possible.If it is
impractical or impossible it would not be.
Councilmember Barker asked
who would determine if it was impractical or impossible.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated it would be determined by physical
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constraints, by width, or by whatever.These alternate
locations could apply.He asked if there was room for that.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated there is as a general concept.He would have to see the
actual language.If it infringes upon the actual variance
restrictions under state law then it is a board of adjustment
issue and a hearing officer would have to decide based on board
of adjustment criteria.He read state law on variances.If
they want to change some language for a situation where the
trailer cannot be placed on the property because of special
circumstances, they have to be more specific as to what the
specific circumstances could be as a criteria to waive that
particular issue.
Councilmember Severs
commented he thinks that is where they are getting too
difficult.He does not think they need to get that specific.
There is a stump in the way, a hole over here and a rock over
here.That is why it is becoming so difficult.He stated it
should be where and if possible if the landscape does not
prohibit it, it does not apply.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that is an arbitrary statement when using the where and
if.It could be where and if for some, but if you get a
different hearing officer, which could happen, it could be they
are denied.It could be the same issue that someone had 3 years
earlier.There have to be black and white definitions.He
thinks he told him that about 8 months ago when this was first
brought up.
Councilmember Severs
commented they need black and white guidelines.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they are guidelines if he is saying they are not
enforceable.A guideline is not necessarily the law.It is
something that is a good idea but they can look this way this
time.
Councilmember Barker
commented he is saying they need specific criteria.If they are
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 18 OF 59
looking at a travel trailer that is supposed to be in the
backyard and it cannot because of the concave of the land or
what have you, they need some kind of very specific statement
that planning staff could look at and say they have a major
problem and it is one of those that is brought up here.They
could therefore grant them a variance.She asked if that is
what he is saying.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that is correct, if it fits that particular category.
Councilmember Barker stated
we have a lot of that.
Councilmember Wilson
commented one of the things that we need to look at is that a
lot of large lots do not fit the conventional rules of property.
They are not all flat and level where they could do this.Some
homes were built several years ago that are too close to the
road under current setback requirements.They would like to put
a garage onto theirs but they cannot because they are 5' too
close to the road.When the house was built it was nothing but
a dirt road.They need to look at what they can do for the
community as a whole.It will not happen on every property, but
there are some properties that will not meet what they think of
as a conventional property.There are some problems on it.He
asked if they punish everyone because of it or start working out
a resolution to the situation so that they correct the problem.
He does not know whether it should be with a hearing officer,
but he believes they should have the ability to look at the
property and make a decision on the intent of the rule or law.
If the intent is to have the trailer in the backyard but it is
not possible because the land is not flat and cannot be
bulldozed out, they need to be able to work where they can do
this.
Councilmember Severs stated
one of his concerns with the way the city attorney is suggesting
it, regarding certain, specific criteria, is that if it is done
that way, then they will have to change every code they have,
including travel trailer, swimming pools, front yard fencing and
rear yard fencing.They would have to change and add that
specific wording to every single code.That could take years.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 19 OF 59
He suggested doing a blanket, flexible, common sense where
practical type of thing, and there has to be a way to do it if
they have the mentality of how they can work together to make
this happen.It should be how they can work together to solve
this situation instead of having to change the wording and
ordinance.He has been sitting up here for 2.5 years.He
watched the caretaker issue take 9 months for that one to go
through.The cargo containers have taken 11 months so far
because they have to change the ordinance and change the details
and make specifics.There has got to be a simpler way.
Councilmember Barker
commented she agreed with him that we have some problems, but
they also have to do this as legally as possible.Otherwise,
what they end up with is some people getting this part of what
they want and other people not getting what they want.There
has to be an approach that covers the entire community, not just
those specific problems.It has to be done is such a manner
that it is legal.That means we have to also work with the city
attorney to find a legal way to do this.
Councilmember Severs agreed.
Councilmember Serdy commented
there are certain properties that people own that they have to
realize they cannot do everything.If they live on a hillside,
they may not be able to have a swimming pool.They cannot build
a skyscraper in a swamp because it will sink.If their property
is mostly wash, they will not be able to do certain things.
Councilmember Barker
commented that they buy the property knowing that, or they
should.
Councilmember Serdy commented
that if they can help people they can, but there are certain
people we will not be able to help.
Councilmember Severs stated
those circumstances would be looked at.If there is absolutely
no place for the pool, then they do not have the space for a
pool.If the only space they have is their front yard, they
deserve to have a pool in their front yard if they want it.It
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 20 OF 59
should not be denied just because they do not have a backyard.
There is a resident that has 1.25 acres of land and their house
sits 30' from the back property line.Next to their house is a
travel trailer, a horse trailer, a boat trailer and all their
other vehicles.They have no room behind their house but they
have an acre of beautiful land in front of them that they can do
nothing with because they can put nothing in the front yard due
to the ordinances and they way they were written.
Councilmember Dietz commented
it is because of where someone built that house.That was the
choice that someone made when they built the house and also the
choice someone made to purchase the house.
Vice Mayor Eck and
Councilmember Barker agreed.
Councilmember Severs asked if
they are back to buyer beware.
Councilmember Dietz stated
not necessarily, but there are some instances where common sense
is common sense.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
ran for council to try to help people out, but he does not know
how to just grant someone a magic wand to where they can make a
discretionary change when it comes to city code.He asked if
Joel could come up with something for this that might be easier
or user friendly.He does not see them allowing a staff member
to go up there and make a decision without changing the code,
especially being more lenient.An officer was more lenient 10'
away from the property to put a dog out of its misery and now
the city is in trouble.That was good judgment, too.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he can try.He will bring something back if they give
direction.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated he would like to follow up on the vice mayor's comment.
He thinks it is a timely illustration.There are many who might
suggest to you that it would be good common sense for an officer
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 21 OF 59
who was injured pursuing a criminal, who has an animal in pain
and in suffering, not to have to have to drag that dog out to
the middle of a centerline of a road so that it can be put out
of its pain.There would be many who would say that it would be
the epitome of good common sense.And yet, there would be
others who would say that it would be a technical violation of
the law.That it is corruption.So the notion that what is
good common sense puts staff in the middle, not just in the
middle of a judgment call, but indeed of a political process.
It has the potential to put staff in the middle of politics.
The goal that the council is trying to achieve is a good one.
Any of us as citizens and customers want what they are striving
for.As a resident of this community, he would want that.They
need to know that people are treated equitably and that equals
receive equal treatment, that there is a sense of fairness and
fair play.The people that spoke up tonight are asking for
fairness.You treat citizens inside the city one way and
outside it is a different set of rules.That is a fair request
and it is appropriate, but one might argue that it competes with
common sense.He thinks they are finding that there is a lot of
complexity here and he wants to affirm that their goal is good,
and that when we rattle off common sense, they are all for that.
But he thinks, to use the illustration that the vice mayor
raised, it can also be challenging.
Councilmember Severs
commented our staff, specifically the code enforcement officers,
practice flexibility every day.They practice discretion every
day, right now illegally.If they can do it everyday, we need
to find a way to make it legal.He knows that they do it
everyday.They do time frame extensions.If they can figure
out a way to write that a code enforcement officer has
flexibility in time of prosecution, then they need to find a way
to have flexibility based on circumstances.In doing so, he
asked them to keep it simple.
Councilmember Barker
commented she does not want to prolong this discussion any more.
Mayor Insalaco agreed.There
is no compromise.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 22 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he has heard that at least a couple of the
suggestions seem to have some consensus.He will take a shot at
some others and report back at a future date.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he has not been directed to do anything.
Councilmember Barker asked
the city attorney to be specific on the role a hearing officer
would play, and if they would be an interim between a problem
with planning and the board of adjustment.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated under the statute the hearing officer becomes the board
of adjustment for that particular moment.They take the place
of the board of adjustment if the council sets it up that way.
If someone does not like the decision, it can be appealed to the
board of adjustment.If they do not like that decision, they
would have to go to court.Once the city has 100,000 residents,
the council can become its own board of adjustment or that board
of adjustment's decision would get appealed to the council.
City Manager George Hoffman
asked what flexibility or ability to exercise common sense does
the hearing officer have as contrasted with the board of
adjustment or is there any difference.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it would be the same analysis of the case, like in a
variance.They would look for special circumstances, if they
are self-imposed, and things like that.The board of adjustment
hears that every time they see a case.It is the same analysis
that the board would have.
Councilmember Barker asked if
this proposal was brought up for monetary reasons because the -
fees to take a case to the board of adjustment are such that a
hearing officer would be an interim step.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated it was put on the list because they were
brainstorming possible ideas as to how they would work with
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 23 OF 59
waivers, variances and exemptions.It was not on the list
because they thought it necessarily needed to be or was
warranted.Some communities have used it because of workload
issues.The position could possibly be a reduced cost option,
but that is another discussion depending on who the person is,
the administrative cost for this and how often they would meet.
Those would have to be part of an ordinance and it has not been
thought through yet.
Councilmember Barker asked if
they have an extremely heavy workload for the board of
adjustment.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they are talking about something that is
arguably broke.He does not see that they have chronic zoning
issues or problems.They have a handful that go to the board of
adjustment each year.That is a healthy system.There are
people that are a square peg in a round hole.For whatever
reason, whether they did not understand when they bought the
property or situations have changed, but that is what the board
of adjustment is there for.
Councilmember Barker
commented they do not have a heavy workload.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they do not.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they have had more in some years.About 3 to 4 years ago
they had a board of adjustment meeting every month.In the past
8 months, they have had two.They only meet once a month.
Councilmember Severs asked
how costly a board of adjustment appeal is.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they just raised the fee.There is a $500
advertising fee.
Councilmember Severs
commented for someone to appeal to the board of adjustment right
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 24 OF 59
now there is a $750 fee.Some people cannot afford that.For
someone with circumstances beyond their control, they cannot
handle a $750 fee for something they had nothing to do with.To
have someone in the middle say based on certain circumstances,
they are right.Based on the facts at hand, they are right and
it needs to be taken care of right now at this level instead of
being forced to cost a lot of money, time and stress to go to
the next level.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated the ordinance could have a waiver provision as to the fee
to apply.The $500 fee is for publishing he does not believe is
waivable.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated it is statutory.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if the
$500 is statutory.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated the cost for applicant to pay the publishing fee is
statutory.That fee varies depending on the size of the legal
ad.
Councilmember Severs asked if
that is for a rezoning.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that is for any publication that is done on behalf of a
private citizen.We have no discretion on that whatsoever.
Vice Mayor Eck commented that
is considerably higher than he thought it was.
Councilmember Severs asked
what if they have someone that could issue a variance based on
certain circumstances.
Councilmember Barker stated
they would still have to advertise.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 25 OF 59
City Attorney Joel Stern
asked if the $500 fee is actually a deposit.Any additional
deposit over the cost of the ad is returned.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated it is.She has seen those ads and they are literally
short and they do not cost $500.
Councilmember Severs
commented they would then go before the board of adjustment who
in the past have been by the book and get denied.The book says
this and thanks for your money.
Vice Mayor Eck commented that
is where they look at the members, see how they vote and
determine if you want that member back on when it comes time for
reappointment.It is important to appoint people with your
philosophies on this board.
Councilmember Barker
commented they are a quasi -legal body.They have to follow the
statutes.They do not have that choice.Whatever the statute
says, they must follow by law.
Councilmember Severs stated
there is no flexibility in that.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
there are 3-2 votes all the time.
Councilmember Severs stated
there is flexibility as well.He witnessed it where certain
circumstances that applied would allow a person a variance and
they said no, this is what the book says.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated there is some flexibility under some of their powers.
For example, a board of adjustment shall hear and decide appeals
in which there is an alleged error in an order, requirement or
decision made by the zoning administrator and the enforcement of
the zoning ordinance adopted to that article.Secondly, they
may hear and decide appeals for variances from terms of the
zoning ordinance only if because of special circumstances
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 26 OF 59
applicable to the property including its size, shape,
topography, location or surroundings; the strict application of
the zoning ordinance will deprive such person of privileges
enjoyed by other property owners of the same classification and
the same zoning district.
Councilmember Severs
commented right there applied to what they are talking about.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it is there, it is in the law.That is what a hearing
officer could do if they so decide that a hearing officer would
be the one who would now decide this.
Councilmember Severs
commented they would not have to pay the $750 and go through all
the waiting period and quasi-judicial process.
City Attorney Joel Stern
commented there is some staff cost to this.If they make it
zero, it would possibly be gifting and it could be attacked as a
gift.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if they
get a hearing officer would they still have to do the $500
mailing and all that.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they would not.It would be an administrative hearing,
but there is still some cost at looking at the application and
processing it.
Vice Mayor Eck commented it
would probably be considerably less.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it would probably not even be $250 in actual time spent,
depending on who does it.
Councilmember Severs stated a
year ago it was $90.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 27 OF 59
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated there was a review of the fees.
Councilmember Severs stated
it went from $90 to $750.Something is wrong with that.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated what happened was it went from $90 to $250 and then it
was determined the publication fees were not being collected.
That is why they added on that fee; they should have been
collected all these years.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated it has been in the code for years.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated other cities do it.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated under the tax code they are required to have a provision
for a hearing officer.In that instance, if a taxpayer wants to
appeal a decision of an audit, they can go to an independent
hearing officer.Each year she puts money in the budget to pay
for an outside hearing officer to hear the case.If the
taxpayer is still not satisfied, they can go to tax court.
There might be a parallel process there to be looked at.There
are no publication costs and it is an independent person that
comes in and charges an hourly rate.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated it is outside of staff.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that is correct.They would be using a tax expert from
another community.There may be an ability to have staff from
another community serve in that function.It is something to
take a look at.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated if they go down that route, he would strongly recommend
that they use someone from outside the organization.It
depoliticizes it and there would be no scenarios where
councilmembers are coming in and saying to the development
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 28 OF 59
services director what common sense is and it needs to be
exercised.It is third party and it keeps the administration of
council law not political.He thinks that is important in the
long run.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated it is something we already have in another section of the
code.They might be able to borrow from that.
Councilmember Severs
commented he would worry about what community they would pick
somebody from.
Councilmember Dietz commented
they can worry about that later.They need to give direction to
staff.
Vice Mayor Eck asked him why
he would worry.They could get someone from Phoenix or
Chandler.
Councilmember Severs stated
they could get someone from Scottsdale that has no idea what our
community is like.He asked if they would want them controlling
what our citizens are doing.He would worry about that.
they need to find a program first.
Councilmember Dietz commented
Councilmember Severs agreed.
Councilmember Dietz stated
they are trying to give direction to staff to work up a program.
They can worry about that stuff later.
Mayor Insalaco closed the
discussion with no further comments and called for a motion.
Councilmember Barker MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING
ADMINISTRATIVE ZONING DISCRETION:THAT THEY LOOK INTO THE 10%
REDUCTION; AND THAT THEY LOOK INTO A VARIETY OF POSSIBILITIES
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 29 OF 59
FOR A POSSIBLE HEARING OFFICER; AND THAT THEY LOOK INTO ANY
POSSIBILITY OF MAKING THE CODE MORE FLEXIBLE.
Councilmember Severs SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
COMMUNITY OUTREACH PLAN FOR 2008-
2009 )
)Assistant to the City
Manager Ruth Giese briefed the council on the item.She stated
last evening they discussed a council outreach program for the
next 2 years.She had provided them a series of potential
avenues for groups they may want to meet with.Tonight ideas
were brought up about council going to an event and sitting at a
booth, such as Lost Dutchman Days.There will be a booth there
and if additional space is needed it can be made available.The
best days would probably be Friday and Saturday from noon to 4
p.m.Pat Brenner or someone from the manager's office could
schedule each of them for an hour or so.There are a lot of
potential meetings each quarter; they might envision how many
times they want to get out.Mayor Insalaco will be attending
the Central Arizona Association of Governments Legislative Day
on February 28.At their next meeting planning and zoning will
be asking them to pick a day in March for an all day tour of
master planned communities.There will be the first joint
council meeting with Florence and Queen Creek in Florence; they
might want to consider that for May or June because of the other
events.The first group they are looking at are the boards and
commissions and how they would like to meet with them.
Councilmember Barker
commented she would like to see something issue -based and that
has time specifics on it.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed.He
thinks they should have a time frame and start at the top with
planning and zoning.He believes that is the only board and
commission he has met with.He does not know every board
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 30 OF 59
members name.He does not think they need an 8 hour meeting,
just meet for 2 or 3 hours.
Councilmember Severs
commented he would like to see them meet here in the council
chambers with all of the boards and commissions.He would like
to go over ahead of time what the topics of discussion would be.
Councilmember Serdy asked if
this room would be big enough or would the public not be there.
Councilmember Severs
commented the public would have to be there.
Mayor Insalaco stated it
would have to be a public meeting.
Councilmember Serdy asked
again if the facility is big enough for that.
Mayor Insalaco suggested the
multi-gen center.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
wondered how they would get into issues that they might want to
with planning and zoning if they have all of the boards and
commission in one room at one time.
Councilmember Severs stated
it is a good way for all the boards and commissions to see the
attitude, goals and visions all at once so that they all get on
the same page.
Councilmember Barker asked
how many people that would entail.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated it would be about 80 people.
Councilmember Barker stated
that would be 80 boards and commissions members, the council
plus the public.She is not sure they would accomplish much.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 31 OF 59
Councilmember Dietz commented
they would have to have it at the multi-gen.
Mayor Insalaco commented they
have some members that are on more than one board.He asked if
they would still have 80.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated they would not.That is the total number of board and
commission positions.
Councilmember Barker stated
they could 20 off of that and come up with 60.
Councilmember Severs stated
they could do it here, have reserved seating for them and
whatever is left over for the public.
Councilmember Barker
commented it seems they would not accomplish much unless he just
wants to have a lecture session on what the council believes and
therefore.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
there would not be any back and forth communication.
Councilmember Barker and
Mayor Insalaco agreed.
Councilmember Serdy asked why
would the joint meeting with Florence and Queen Creek be so
late.He sees that as being more important.He believes the
sooner they get on the same page with them the more benefits
would come from that.
Mayor Insalaco and
Councilmembers Dietz and Barker agreed that it should be moved
up.Councilmember Barker added Mayor Rankin should be able to
name the date.
Mayor Insalaco stated their
Tuesday night meeting is the same as ours. They do not have a
work session and they could work it in with one of this
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 32 OF 59
council's off nights.Queen Creek's nights coincide with ours.
He added he thinks it is too much with all the boards and
commissions together.
Councilmember Barker agreed.
Councilmember Severs
commented they could have a person like Pat Brenner run the
meeting and each board or commission would have a certain time
to discuss issues.That way it would be organized and each
board and commission would be able to have communication with
the council.
Vice Mayor Eck commented they
would only have about 3 minutes each.That would be over 3
hours.
Mayor Insalaco commented
about the only board that they have a lot of contact with is the
planning and zoning commission.Everybody else is, although not
basically, on their own.
Councilmember Barker stated
they also have some interest in the board of adjustment, parks
and recreation with all of the projects, and many other boards
they have serious interest in.
Mayor Insalaco commented
about having them all at the same time.
Councilmember Barker stated
she would prefer to do them individually; that way they could
actually have a conversation.They could speak back and forth
instead of having almost a Call to the Public forum; they would
end up with very little real communication.
Mayor Insalaco commented in a
case like this the public would be able to attend but they would
not be allowed to speak.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they can structure it how they want.They could have
public input, a work session type where the public can come and
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 33 OF 59
listen, or they could have it where they can speak on any issue
or have a Call to the Public.It can be structured however they
want it.
Councilmember Severs stated
he would like this as a meeting between the council and the
boards and commissions.He apologized but this one is not about
the public.It is about the boards and commissions and the
council getting together as one.
Vice Mayor Eck commented they
should be over in the old council chambers.
Mayor Insalaco commented that
is awful small.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that poses problems.He went to a parks and recreation
meeting about a month ago and they did not expect 65 to 80
people and it was rather difficult, plus the sound system was
not working.He would not recommend it.He suggested they have
it here.
Vice Mayor Eck commented that
is because they want to build ballparks out by Silly Mountain.
Councilmember Severs
commented it would be more formal here, more of a meeting than a
casual conversation.
Mayor Insalaco commented they
would have more room over at the multi-gen center.They had the
regional Central Arizona Association of Governments meeting over
there.He asked the assistant city manager how many people were
there.
Assistant City Manager Bryant
Powell stated about this many.
Councilmember Severs stated
he did not care.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 34 OF 59
Mayor Insalaco stated it was
very comfortable at the multi-gen.The tables can be fixed to
make it formal or informal.
Councilmember Dietz asked
Ruth what she was looking for tonight, if they were supposed to
be planning each and every event for the next 2 years tonight.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese stated they do not have to plan the next 2 years
tonight but she would like a little bit of direction on how they
would like to meet with these different groups.That is what
they are working on right now.
Councilmember Dietz commented
they want to start with the boards and commissions and meeting
with Florence and Queen Creek; those should be the priorities.
Councilmember Severs agreed.
City Manager George Hoffman
commented he thinks they can both meet with the commissions one
-on-one and have a little more in depth dialogue, and meet with
all of your boards and commissions.Number three is having an
annual event with all the boards and commissions.They could
use that as an opportunity to say thank you, express visions,
goals for the year ahead and three to five years ahead, and have
an overview.It might be a little more one-way conversation
from the council to all the groups, be an opportunity to express
their appreciation for their service to the community and to the
organization.
Mayor Insalaco commented it
makes a lot of sense.
Councilmember Barker stated
she would prefer to see us do that as a recognition of their
hard work, to have an event that would allow us to recognize all
their work.They do work hard, long hours and read huge volumes
just like the council does.In fact, they read them before the
council does most of the time.She would also like to schedule
individual meetings in a roundtable type thing where they could
converse with them.She added she had a thought on the
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 35 OF 59
neighborhood groups and civic groups.She would like to extend
an invitation to one of those groups for every council meeting.
They could honor that group, recognize that they are at the
meeting and ask them to give a very short presentation of what
their goals are or something that would let the council now what
they are all about.If they do that at every council meeting,
and there are a lot of organizations out here, they could get a
lot of -them in.She thinks it would be a nice thing to do.She
knows that the mayor and several other people here go to the
neighborhood meetings during the day.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese stated they have suggested having that at council
meetings.She asked if they wanted a named group under
presentation and discussions.
Councilmember Barker stated
that is correct.
Mayor Insalaco commented if
they give an estimate on how many people are going to come, they
could have a certain section reserved for them so they would be
all together.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese commented the external meetings with other city
councils and neighboring communities and the Pinal County Board
of Supervisors could be done similar to what they are doing with
Queen Creek and Florence.They could take one and see how it
goes, changing it if it did not work.
A consensus of the council
agreed.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese commented that Mayor Insalaco will be meeting with
the legislators from our district for Central Arizona
Association of Governments Legislative Day.That is on an
annual basis.There is also the potential of inviting certain
legislators to our meetings.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 36 OF 59
Councilmember Dietz commented
not right away but to get to know them better in a casual, sit
down, roundtable -type discussion.
Councilmember Barker stated
she would also like to know what is going on.
Mayor Insalaco commented it
would be nice to let them do the talking for a change.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
Senator Rios came by once and he said he comes by invitation
only.He has so many cities and towns in his district; we can
go ahead and invite him.
Councilmember Barker stated
that is a wonderful idea. She would like to see our legislators,
one at a time, come and address the council and tell us what is
going on down there and what is affecting us.The public needs
to know what is going on at the state level that could affect
us.It is information that everybody needs, and sometimes the
council gets blamed for it.
City Manager George Hoffman
asked if they had covered the school board and fire board; if
they wanted to meet with anyone in the first couple months.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese stated she was going to ask council about that.They
had a timeline and every single group they could think of was
thrown on it for the next couple of years.
Councilmember Dietz commented
they can meet with them in the future.Right now they have
something to start with and to work with.
City Manager George Hoffman
commented they do not want to schedule any meetings in the near
future with those groups.
There was general discussion
on when they would like to meet with the individual groups.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 37 OF 59
Mayor Insalaco closed the
discussion with no further comments and called for a motion.
Councilmember Barker MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING
COMMUNITY OUTREACH PLAN FOR 2008-2009:THAT WE MEET WITH THE
BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS; THAT WE SCHEDULE
ONE PER MONTH AND THAT IT BE A PUBLIC MEETING; THAT THERE BE NO
CALL TO THE PUBLIC, THAT THEY ARE WELCOME TO BE HERE AND WELCOME
TO LISTEN BUT AT THE TIME WHEN THE COUNCIL AND THOSE BOARDS MEET
THEY BE ABLE TO CONVERSE; AND THAT WE DO AN ANNUAL, OR AT LEAST
ONE YEAR AND WE WILL TRY IT AND SEE IF IT BECOMES ANNUAL, THANK
YOU FOR OUR BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS IN JUNE, AND THE REASON I
SAID JUNE IS BECAUSE MOST OF THEIR COMMISSIONS AT THIS POINT ARE
OVER IN JULY, CORRECT, SO THAT STILL KEEPS THEM, THE PEOPLE WHO
HAVE BEEN SERVING, THERE; AND I WOULD THINK THAT THE PLANS FOR
THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME LATER, IT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO GET INTO
SPECIFICS BUT THE WHEN IS THERE; THAT WE DO THIS FIRST DINNER
WITH FLORENCE AND QUEEN CREEK AS SOON AS MAYOR RANKIN FEELS THAT
HE WANTS TO DO THAT; AND FROM THAT POINT WE GIVE DIRECTION AFTER
THAT OCCURS, DECIDING WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO; THAT WE INVITE
DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS AND CIVIC ORGANIZATIONS ONE AT A TIME TO
OUR MEETINGS AND ASK THEM TO GIVE US AN OVERVIEW AND RECOGNIZE
THEM; THAT WE INVITE OUR LEGISLATORS TO SPEAK ONE AT A TIME, I
KNOW THEY ARE VERY BUSY, AND SO IT WOULD BE THEIR SCHEDULE, NOT
OURS, AND A MONDAY MEETING WOULD PROBABLY BE BEST, BUT IT IS
AGAIN, UP TO THEM, DEPENDENT ON THE LEGISLATURE; AND THE REST
HAS BEEN LEFT OUT THERE FOR AWHILE.
City Manager George Hoffman
asked if when they meet with the individual boards and
commissions they would like that done at a work session here.
Councilmember Barker stated
that is correct.
Councilmember Severs asked
how many boards and commissions there are.
Assistant to the City Manager
Ruth Giese stated she has ten and on her list.She had included
the smaller ones that only have like 3 members and they might be
able to meet with more than one of those at a time.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 38 OF 59
Councilmember Barker stated
they might be able to combine some of those, too.The larger
ones need to be individuals because they do not want more than
15 of us altogether.There are big ones with 7 members and the
council is 7, so that would be 14.The ones that are smaller
they could combine.
Councilmember Severs asked if
they could combine two meetings, such as voting for their
appointments.They are looking at 10 to 12 different groups and
they will be meeting with one a month.It will take them a year
to meet with these people.During that time some of them will
be gone and some will be new.If they meet with these people
right away, everybody could start getting on the same page a lot
faster.
Councilmember Barker
commented some will still be new and some will still be old no
matter what time of year we meet with them.
Councilmember Severs stated
they would all be getting on the same page a lot faster.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
there are 10 and they will be combining at least 4.They will
really only have 5 or 6 meetings.
Mayor Insalaco commented they
can get the ones that they really need first, such as planning
and zoning, parks and recreation and the library.
Councilmember Barker stated
they should be finished by June or July.
Councilmember Dietz SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
CARGO CONTAINERS )
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 39 OF 59
)Councilmember Barker
stated she wanted to explain why she asked that the cargo
container ordinance be reconsidered.She asked for it because
she felt that when they voted to retain the original ordinance,
they forgot several people that they talked about in meeting
after meeting that every person up here said yes to, and they
needed that.We forgot people that had emergency situations
where they needed to store their household goods on a very
temporary basis.We left them out when we went back to the
original ordinance.We forgot the home contractor who does not
have the same privilege as the big time developer does and that
person cannot store their materials or their equipment like a
regular contractor can.They forgot that person, too.That was
the reason why she brought this back.She wanted that on the
record.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
thought he had put that in the motion, but he is not sure.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated his job is to help them facilitate a
decision on this.Staff has not editorialized but provided a
menu of choices for them to help staff draft an ordinance for
February 19.The exemption on enforcement is tied to that date
as well.The idea is to give them the opportunity to introduce
cargo containers to residential and non-residential areas on
February 19; he needs to get the information from them what they
want in the ordinance.From the last meeting, the information
gleaned for aesthetics was that the cargo containers should be
located at the side or rear yards of the properties if
physically and practically possible, they should be earthtone in
color, if visible to adjacent property or a public street they
must be landscaped so that within 5 years of growth 75% of the
container is opaque or invisible to the public, staff would help
provide schemes so that they do not have to go to a landscape
architect, they will have to get irrigation systems so that the
plants will grow to provide the natural buffer, and if they do
not have a landscape buffer they can put up a structural fence
or attach siding.If they choose no landscape buffer, they may
have to get a building permit.If it cannot be located in the
side or rear of the property, staff should work with them to
create an alternate location.The city attorney is
uncomfortable with that and thinks there needs to be a remedy as
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 40 OF 59
it is tied to setbacks in this language that goes to the board
of adjustment.He asked if that represents what they wanted to
put into the ordinance.
Councilmember Severs stated
he liked the way that he wrote it and the work he put in it.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he would have to defer to the city attorney
who is uncomfortable with some of the wording.
Councilmember Serdy asked if
there is a where in the city this happens.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated not yet, that is coming up.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated the sole question for him is whether there is an overlap.
This is a city code ordinance, probably Chapter 9 for property
maintenance.It would overlap into zoning if there is a setback
issue and the setback has to be waived.That is a variance
issue, which is currently a board of adjustment issue.The
question is how they would resolve that.If the zoning
administrator states it cannot be put there, it is a board of
adjustment issue on a setback variance.That issue is still
there.He does not believe a code officer could say they can
keep it there, that they are in the setback but it does not
bother him because no one is complaining.It might be common
sense to some people.
Councilmember Severs
commented he does not believe anyone ever mentioned the
containers being allowed to be put in the setbacks.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they could eliminate the word setback from
the definition and just say it must be to the rear or side of
the property if physically practical.
Councilmember Severs added it
should be in the buildable area.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 41 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated that ties it again to setbacks.
City Attorney Joel Stern
agreed.They cannot be so vague.If it goes into the setback,
they have to get a variance.That is the current law.
Councilmember Severs
commented if it is within the buildable area, then it is not in
the setback.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that is correct.
Councilmember Severs stated
he is not saying they should be allowed within the setbacks.
They have to be within the buildable area.
City Attorney Joel Sterna
asked what if they do not have enough room..
Councilmember Severs stated
it could not then go in there.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that then his argument is that they should be allowed to
put it there because it is a common sense approach.That is the
councilmember's argument.
Councilmember Severs stated
he never said that.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he thinks he did.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated that seems to be one sticking point for one
council member.Generally, he thinks they reflected what they
talked about.He will run down the remainder of the choices.
He asked what parts of the city these should be allowed.It has
been suggested that they be limited to the larger lots, which
are GR and R1-43, which is usually 1.25 acres and greater.He
reminded them they are talking about residential at this time.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 42 OF 59
Councilmember Wilson
commented he believes they should be allowed in the larger lots
in GR and R1-43 because they have already zoned some property
that is slightly under 1.25 acres and they have been zoned R1-
43.They are still in the large lot area.
Councilmember Severs asked
what the smallest lot size is in the GR zoning.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated the minimum lot size is 1.25 acres.
Councilmember Severs asked
what were the ones they were talking about a few months back
that were 20,000 sq.ft.They were just over a half acre.He
thought those were GR.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated the way they look at the zoning, GR is 1.25
acre minimum, R1-43 is 1.25 acre minimum, R1-43MH is 1.25 acre
minimum and then they go to the CR-1, CR-1MH, and CR-2 at 20,000
sq.ft.They take a good leap from 1.25 acre down to a half
acre.
Councilmember Severs
commented he was thinking there were a few properties at GR that
are at 20,000 sq.ft.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated there may be some properties that are zoned
GR but are undersized.If they say it would apply to a GR
property or a R1-43 property without having a minimum lot size,
then that person with one acre in GR could have a cargo
container.
Councilmember Barker stated
it should be 1.25 acres.
Vice Mayor Eck commented they
could go 20,000 sq.ft. and have them right downtown on a
residential lot.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 43 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated the other option is R1-43 and at least 1.25
acres in size.He does not think that is where they want to go.
Councilmember Severs
commented he believes he wanted to go at least one acre.
Vice Mayor Eck commented if
they are going to go at least 1.25 acres, they may as well go 1
acre.
Councilmember Barker asked
why not go 30 sq.ft.
Vice Mayor Eck stated it is
only a quarter of an acre off 1.25 acres.
Councilmember Severs asked if
it is gross or net.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke commented he wished he could tell them how many
undersized lots there are in GR and R1-43.If it is just a
handful it is not a big issue, but he does not know that.They
could get that before February 19.
Vice Mayor Eck stated the
whole subdivision between Delaware and Rennick off of
Superstition have about 7,000 sq.ft. lots and it is zoned GR.
Councilmember Severs asked if
they could go with the GR and R1-43 with a minimum of one acre
to catch a lot of the horse properties that use these items.He
asked if that would be practical.
Councilmember Wilson stated
he believed so.Inside of six months ago they did 3 lots that
are just slightly over one acre in size.
Mayor Insalaco stated they
should put that stipulation in there then.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 44 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked what should be the maximum number of
containers in residential areas.
Councilmember Severs
commented they could have one up to 40' long or two 20' long.
Councilmember Wilson agreed.
He has seen a couple of short ones in different areas of the
property.They are staying well underneath, so they could have
2 if they give them a maximum length that they could have.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he has one forty -footer or two twenty-
footers.He asked what would be the maximum length and said
those were tied together at forty feet.He asked what the
maximum width would be.The mini -mobile type is 8'; if a width
is declared, they will restrict the other types of containers
that may not fit the profile that they want.They would be
limiting them to a standard size.
Councilmember Severs stated
that would depend on which company they go with.There are a
number of them that are 10' by 25'.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked him if he meant 10' wide.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.There is a few.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke commented they have an 8' and a 10' option.
Councilmember Severs
commented he does not care which one they use.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked what the maximum height should be.The
typical mobile -mini is 8'6", a railroad car would be taller.
Councilmember Severs stated
8'6" would be fine.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 45 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked what the duration of use should be.
Temporary use would be for emergency situations and construction
situations where someone is working on a house under a building
permit, or there is permanent use.
he would like both.
Councilmember Severs stated
Councilmember Serdy agreed.
Vice Mayor Eck commented they
are talking about use in residential areas.He asked if they
are going back to the size of the residential area.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated that is correct.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated in the case of a building permit being
issued for a property under emergency use, that would apply to
other properties.That is a separate category that would be
treated differently than a one acre plus property.He asked
what types of potential containers they could see out here, such
as the mobile -mini, a retrofitted wooden shipping container, a
railroad car, and a semi -trailer.
Councilmember Severs
commented he does not think any of them want a retrofitted
mobile home or a travel trailer as a storage container.He does
not believe they have ever talked about wooden shipping crates.
He agrees with a mobile -mini type container and semis that have
been removed from their axles because they are removable and
they are shipping containers.Semi -trailers and mobile -mini
types are all the same.The railroad cars he has never seen or
talked about.The detached truck boxes, such as the one that
John Kantowski had, the Ryder trucks, are smoother, cleaner and
better -looking products than the mobile -minis. • He would not
mind seeing the detached truck boxes as long as they are treated
the same as the others.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 46 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he will move on to the businesses, they will
have a slightly different aesthetic standard.They will again
be earthtone, but if it is visible to the public or a neighbor
they are to install a minimum 8' high structural screening.
They have to get approval from development services to do that
and it will require a building permit.They shall be located in
a manner that minimizes public view.The development services
director can help them properly locate that.If they disagree
on the location of it, they have the right to go to the board of
adjustment.It is consistent with what they talked about with
the other one.He suggested they leave that one alone and move
on.
Councilmember Severs asked
where it is saying it has to go.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they are saying it has to go to the rear of
the property in a manner that minimizes public view from
neighboring properties and/or the street.
Councilmember Serdy commented
only in the rear.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated that is correct.
Councilmember Serdy commented
the person who spoke today from Perk's stated theirs are on the
side.They have been on the side for a long time.
Councilmember Severs
commented they are behind a 6' fence.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
Apache Trail High School also has a 20' container on the side.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted to say rear or side and that
if it is visible then they have to screen it.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 47 OF 59
Councilmember Severs agreed
and asked him define structural.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated it is not a landscaping screening.It could
be a fence or the vice mayor's idea.
Councilmember Severs asked if
they would have go through engineering and hire a licensed
engineer to do that.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated Dennis Dixon advised him that he could
create one to three in-house standards that they can give to
someone that is pre-engineered for them.If they want to do
something other than that, then they are on their own.
Councilmember Severs stated
that would be very nice.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted a minimum lot size as some of
the commercial lots are very small.
Vice Mayor Eck stated no.
Councilmember Serdy stated
some of them may not be lots if you have multiple businesses in
the same building.They may need them out back and there may
not even be a lot.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated that is true.They could have an owner that
may have 8 businesses and the lot may be big enough.If it is a
condominium, it makes it a little more interesting.
Councilmember Severs
commented he would like to see no minimum lot size on the
commercial.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they would like to have a maximum number
per business.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 48 OF 59
Councilmember Severs
suggested two.
Councilmember Wilson
commented it would depend on the area that they have to put
them.They would not want to cram in 2 on a small one, but if
they have a larger area, two could easily fit.
Councilmember Serdy commented
WalMart at Christmas time would need more than two.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated WalMart has an existing development agreement that
prohibits them.
Councilmember Severs
commented it prohibits them.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that is correct.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated there are quite a few in the back of Signal
Butte.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if they
could be screened if they are at the WalMart.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated they cannot have them.
Councilmember Severs
commented those are not storage containers, they are semi-
trailers.
stated they are the removable ones.
commented they are on wheels.
stated that is correct.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 49 OF 59
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
Councilmember Severs
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
Councilmember Severs stated
they do not even apply here.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that is correct.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated there is always something behind this.If
they do not limit number per business and the business is also
in the business of storing other peoples' equipment and it
becomes a storage facility, then they have gone beyond the
intent of what it is.It is also assumed that wherever they put
this it cannot disrupt traffic, parking or access for fire
vehicles.He asked if it would be case by case.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted a maximum length.
Councilmember Severs stated a
lot of those come in as temporary, as Councilmember Serdy said.
Some of them may be 55' long.It is a hard one for the
businesses.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they do not want a maximum length.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted the width at 10' as per
residential.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted the height at 8'6" as they did
with residential.He added he would check with other companies.
If they are at 9' they would not want to exclude them.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 50 OF 59
Councilmember Severs
commented businesses get different ones that come and go from
time to time.It would be a bummer if they had an 8'6" one for
a long time and then bring one at 9'.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated they are not going to quibble over 4" or 6".
He will confirm what the typical cargo container is.He asked
if they want a duration of temporary or permanent.
Councilmember Wilson
commented they would want both.There are some businesses that
use them and some that are ongoing with turnovers.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke asked if they wanted the same type of standard as
they are doing with residential.
Councilmember Wilson stated
that is correct.
Councilmember Severs agreed
and added they do not have any businesses in town that use
railroad cars.In Mesa they have the railroad tracks coming
through there and you will see a lot of railroad cars that are
stored.He does not think that happens here.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated he recalled someone actually bought a
railroad car, stuck it in their back residential yard as an
amenity.It could pop up.They are not thinking about every
possibility and next year they will be back because someone has
a brainstorm that they have not thought of.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated there is one more issue, and that is enforcement.He
asked who this should apply to.In 1989 Ordinance No. 630 was
passed and it stated there are 3 allowed in the city without any
regulations whatsoever.
Councilmember Severs
commented if they were there before the ordinance was passed
then they do not have any say in that.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 51 OF 59
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that is not true.The council does because this is not a
zoning case; they are not grandfathered rights.This is a city
code chapter one matter, not a zoning ordinance.The zoning
ordinance comes under a different chapter and volume.
Councilmember Severs
commented he would like to try to work with those three to see
if they would voluntarily bring them up to these standards.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they can ask them but they would not have to under the
law.His recommendation is to leave them alone and this be
enforced against anyone who has them, even though in August they
did not want other people bringing them in.There were some
motions made throughout the last few months, some that were very
confusing.Staff was even confused.He thinks, if this is
passed, it should apply to everybody and anyone who wants to
bring them in in the future.
Councilmember Severs stated
he thinks there was confusion in what they requested.In August
when he requested that they wait on these people that are almost
ready to be prosecuted, he did not think that they would be
actively looking for other people that were in violation until
this issue was resolved.He does not understand why several
people were issued citations in the last several weeks.We are
in the middle of working on a process.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he does not believe anyone was issued a citation.
Councilmember Severs stated
it is all these people that are here.
City Attorney Joel Stern
repeated that no one has been issued a citation.
Councilmember Severs stated
they have been issued a letter that they must remove them within
14 days or they will be fined.He did not think they were going
to do that while we were in the middle of these discussions.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 52 OF 59
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated the council directed us to do that at the
last meeting.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated there is where the confusion is.He has a prosecutor
here tonight if he would like to ask her about discriminatory
prosecution.
Councilmember Severs stated
absolutely.He asked if it was right that they ask someone two
weeks ago to remove this today when possibly in two weeks it
will be allowed.It does not make sense.
City Prosecutor Mary Anne
Coyne stated it is her understanding that they had exempted some
people before a certain period of time from prosecution until
this issue is resolved.They then gave direction to go ahead
and pursue potential prosecution of others discovered after a
certain date.She thinks they would run into some real issues
on selective prosecution.She also thinks they have to
understand that the city would have the burden of proof on any
prosecution.She understands that if someone had this before a
certain date, they would be exempt and if someone was not in
that category of the people who had it before that certain date
they would not be exempt.The city has the burden of proof.
Those people would not have to bring in anything to show us when
they had them.She thinks they would run into the burden of
proof issues and some real potential selective enforcement
issues.She feels is should be straight across the board,
whichever way the council determines.
City Attorney Joel Stern
commented it is anticipated that if an ordinance comes back, it
would actually go in chapter 9.In chapter 9, the first 3
violations are civil within 24 months.The fourth violation in
24 months would be a crime.It is just like abandoned vehicles.
That is what he recommended the first time around.If the
people do not want to comply, then they will be prosecuted for a
crime.He recommends doing it this way as the property
maintenance code violations are handled.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 53 OF 59
Councilmember Severs
commented he believes the confusion came in when they decided
they did not want any more containers coming into the city until
this was resolved.He does not think they directed staff to go
out for more and cite them or send them a notice.They did not
want any more coming in during the next few weeks while they
resolved this issue.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he is not certain that was clear in the motion.Brad can
tell you why he proceeded that way.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated development services had been exempting
everyone up until the last meeting, including those that were on
the list prior to August and those that popped up after August.
They had a staff discussion and there was some debate on whether
that was the council's original direction.They came back here
for direction at the same time the semi -trailer popped up and
believed they were told to go after the semi -trailer and all the
properties that had popped up with cargo containers.They were
not to go on the exempt list and they were to be enforced.That
is what they have been doing over the last two weeks.They sent
out a letter to those that they have 14 days to comply.If they
do not, they are handed over to legal and legal decides the
timetable on any prosecution.If staff misread their direction,
they need to know that.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
thinks they said something about that whole thing.
Councilmember Wilson stated
he thought they were actually saying we did not want any
additional ones brought in.There was confusion on the
council's part as well.
Councilmember Severs
commented the original request came from George when he said
until this is resolved we are going to look for other things to
enforce.He does not consider this resolved so he was not
looking to enforce these issues until it was resolved.When
this was brought up at the last meeting, it was about a new 45'
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 54 OF 59
trailer that had just been dropped on Broadway and we did not
want any more brought in until the issue was resolved.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he thought the original motion was to focus our efforts
on other things.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that was Councilmember Severs' motion.
Councilmember Severs stated
that was correct.He thought they were still focusing their
efforts on other things, not cargo containers until they had
resolved this issue.He requested that anyone that has been
listed here not have any enforcement until this issue has been
resolved.He cannot see someone having to pay $2,000 to remove
this, like the gentleman from Perk's, and then another $2,000 to
move it back in possibly 2 weeks.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated someone might say that they have a claim against the city
because we made them move it when they really did not have to
because now the law has been changed.
Councilmember Severs asked if
anyone had moved them yet.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he believes one has.
Councilmember Severs
commented the only person who has removed one is John Kantowski.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
while it is under discussion he thinks it is only right to put a
halt on prosecution.We are still discussing this item.Until
this is resolved, he does not see how they can go out and pursue
prosecution.
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 55 OF 59
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated the motion from the last meeting that was approved was
Councilmember Severs moved that the following direction be given
to staff regarding the use of cargo containers citywide:that
the suggestions from Brad and the council tonight keeping it
simple, going with earthtones, landscape screening where
possible, and flexible screening be used, and that it be brought
back to us at the next meeting and that we give an extension to
the original people that we have given exception until February
19.The discussion before that had to do with the people that
were originally exempted at the August 7 meeting.
Councilmember Severs
commented that everyone that had already received an exemption
he had wanted to have it stay until this was resolved.He did
not think they would go out and find more.He needs to word it
that they leave everyone alone until they resolve this issue;
that is everybody with a cargo container.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated here and into the future.He asked if they
should be dealing with that tonight since they have these
pending.People are concerned about all this.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated letters have been sent out from development services and
he does not know the deadline as he does not know when they were
sent out.
Development Services Director
Brad Steinke stated 14 days may have passed and they would be
technically in violation.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they would then send the case to his office, his office
would look at it from a legal standpoint as to whether they
could be prosecuted, and that would take some time also.The
amount of time would be determined by how many they get and the
complexity of the particular case.They would be reviewing a
stack of long form complaints and it would take Mary Anne some
time to do that, especially if one mixes in all the criminal
matters that come from the police department.
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
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Councilmember Severs stated
several times in the past code enforcement has given someone a
14 day notice, then gone back to find the people have not had
time to do it.The people have asked for an extension and code
enforcement has given them another 14 days.They use their
discretion on time every day.He asked if they could ask code
enforcement to do that tomorrow.That way it does not have to
go to the city attorney's office.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he thinks they do have that discretion.It could depend
on the excuse.Someone is sick and they cannot move it.He has
seen code enforcement officers give additional time.
City Manager George Hoffman
asked if they could extend it because the council wants us to
extend it.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it could be part of the motion.
Mayor Insalaco closed the
discussion with no further comments and called for a motion.
Councilmember Severs MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING CARGO
CONTAINERS:THAT ALL OF THE OPTIONS THAT BRAD HAS PRESENTED TO
US TONIGHT AND THE FEEDBACK THAT HE RECEIVED FROM US BE DRAFTED
IN THE ORDINANCE, AND EVERYBODY HAVING TO DO WITH THESE CARGO
CONTAINERS RIGHT NOW NOT BE ENFORCED UNTIL WE RESOLVE THIS
MATTER.
City Attorney Joel Stern
commented WITH THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT IF THIS DOES NOT PASS,
AT ONE POINT THEY WOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH ORDINANCE NO. 630.
Councilmember Severs AGREED
TO THE ACKNOWLEDGEMENT.
Councilmember Wilson SECONDED
THE MOTION.
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
PAGE 57 OF 59
VOTE:4-3 (Mayor Insalaco and Councilmembers Barker and Dietz
voted in opposition.)
The motion carried.
SELECTION OF MEETING DATES, TIMES, LOCATIONS, AND PURPOSES
Councilmember Dietz stated
that there will be no executive session or work session on
Monday, February 18, 2008, due to the Presidents' Day holiday.
He MOVED THAT AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 6:00 P.M. AND A WORK
SESSION AT 6:00 P.M. BE HELD ON TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2008, IN
THE CITY COUNCIL CONFERENCE ROOM AND CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS,
RESPECTIVELY.
Councilmember Barker SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
ADJOURNMENT )
)Mayor Insalaco adjourned
the meeting at 10:50 p.m.
Consent Agenda Items are as follows:
1. Acceptance of Agenda.
2. Acceptance of Minutes of Regular Meeting of January 15, 2008.
3. Authorization of Expenditures to Arizona Tactical, Universal
Police Supply Company and East Valley Uniforms.
4. Authorization of Expenditures to CLH International, Inc.
5. Authorization of Expenditures to Dell Marketing L.P.
6. Authorization of Expenditures to Premise One.
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
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7. Approval of Award of Bid for Material and Labor to Lower and
Raise Manholes and Valves at Various Locations Throughout the
City of Apache Junction, as Needed.
8. Acknowledge Receipt of the Comprehensive Annual Financial
Report for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2007.
9. Acknowledge Receipt of Branch Library Space Needs Plan for
the Apache Junction Public Library.
ACCEPTED THIS 19TH DAY OF FEBRUARY, 2008, BY THE MAYOR AND CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION, ARIZONA.
SIGNED AND ATTESTED TO THIS _22ND
ATTEST:
KATHLEEN CONNELLY
City Clerk
DAY OF FEBRUARY, 2008.
-tf
ryTOHN S. INSALACO
Mayor
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and
correct copy of the minutes of the regular meeting of the City
Council of the City of Apache Junction, Arizona, held on the 5th
day of February, 2008.I further certify that the meeting was
duly called and held and that a quorum was present.
Dated this 15th day of February, 2008.
KATHLEEN CONNELLY
City Clerk
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FEBRUARY 5, 2008
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