HomeMy WebLinkAbout2006-11-07 City Council Regular MinutesCITY COUNCIL
REGULAR MEETING
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
The regular meeting of the City Council of the City of
Apache Junction, Arizona, was held on November 7, 2006, at the
Apache Junction City Council Chambers pursuant to the notice
required by law.
CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Coleman called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m.
INVOCATION
Councilmember Insalaco gave the Invocation.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Vice Mayor Eck led the Pledge of Allegiance.
ROLL CALL
Councilmembers Present:Mayor Coleman
Vice Mayor Eck
Councilmember Dietz
Councilmember Insalaco
Councilmember Severs
Councilmember Sippel
Councilmember Waldron
Staff Present:
Others Present:
City Manager George Hoffman
Assistant City Manager Bryant Powell
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
City Attorney Joel Stern
Public Safety Director Glenn Walp
City Engineer Giao Pham
Interim Evidence Technician Jim Stevens
Public Information Officer Jay Swart
Senior Planner Rudy Esquivias
Assistant Planner Mike Heuchert
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Parks Superintendent Nick Blake
Assistant Planner Yanet Ochoa
Asst. to the City Manager Janine Solley
ACCEPTANCE OF CONSENT AGENDA
)Vice Mayor Eck MOVED THAT
THE CONSENT AGENDA BE ACCEPTED AS PRESENTED, AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION AND APACHE JUNCTION MAIN
STREET PROGRAM, INC., FOR FY 2006-07 IN THE AMOUNT OF $40,000;
AND THAT AUTHORIZATION BE GIVEN FOR THE MAYOR TO SIGN THE
AGREEMENT; AND
THAT APPROVAL BE GIVEN FOR THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION AND APACHE JUNCTION
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION FOR FY 2006-07 IN THE AMOUNT
OF $7,155; AND THAT AUTHORIZATION BE GIVEN FOR THE MAYOR TO SIGN
THE AGREEMENT.
Councilmember Dietz SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
AWARDS, PRESENTATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS
None.
CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Mr. Steven White, 105 N. Delaware, Apache Junction, addressed
the council regarding licensing requirements.He has come
before the city council challenging the city in dissent of
governmental affairs and policies for 3 years now.He is a
veteran standing up for his constitutional rights.The issue
that keeps hanging over his head are the licensing requirements
for business licenses, vendor licenses, and transaction
privilege licenses that the city is applying to artistic self-
expression.He contends artistic self-expression is fully
protected by the first amendment.The sale of artistic
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expression by the original artist that created it is also fully
protected by the first amendment.He went into a public meeting
last Monday regarding zoning requirements for the artists to
establish a community art show outside the downtown area.They
thought it would help draw tourists and promote opportunities
for local artists.They are trying to create community
participation in the arts.The meeting blew up in their faces
and they were threatened by government officials.The same
government official has intimidated them before at one of their
free family community art shows last spring.Senior citizens
and young families were complaining to him about a spooky man
hiding behind trees with a camera.He was taking pictures of
the artists in the park; this is what the policies have led to.
It is about the complete and total elimination of artists from
our community for years to come, or we open the doors of
opportunity for community participation and we encourage artists
in our community to draw tourists and have artists in front of
businesses downtown to draw tourists there.There are 5
restaurants downtown that want them there and it ties into the
city's development plan.He walked out of the meeting scared
and rattled and he was not able to sleep for 3 days.It is what
happens when a couple of veterans speak out in dissent of
governmental policies.
Mr. Ernest Imbeault, 2835 W. Cody Street, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding artists being able to work in
the city.He came to the city 6 years ago to live.He went out
and started doing his artistic work with the permission of
landowners and on public property and he was run off of every
one of them.He was told he had to have a license.He followed
the ladies to the office in the old buildings and he started
filling out the application.A gentleman came out and asked
what he was filling it out for, and when told it was to perform '
and display his artwork on public property, told him the city
does not allow that.He took an oath to uphold the constitution
and protect the people of America 50 years ago and he honored
that oath for 21 years.Now he is retired and he has come to a
town that he loves but he is told he is not allowed to do what
he does for a living.He does Native American art.He was
harassed, threatened, and had his signs taken.His art was
called crap by city officials.He was approached by policemen
and most of them were doing their job; they were polite and
professional, who told him he was not allowed to do this and to
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pack up.He always did.He never threatened anybody or
threatened lawsuits, but he has been threatened many times.He
is still an old soldier, and he will stand up for peoples'
rights, his rights, and he will fight back.They have had the
free community art show and he saw the kids and old people have
a great time.There were no riots and nothing bad was going on.
A lot of tourists stopped.They cleaned a 5 acre spot on
Tomahawk and State Route 88.Most tourists go to the museum and
Tortilla Flats down State Route 88.The place was a dump out
there.He, his fiancée, and his friend's wife went out and
picked up over 100 bags of garbage.They took down tons of dead
brush.They were then told they could not set up there.The
artists would have brought tourists into the city.The reason
why America became so great is because we have people from all
over the world and they get together once a month to share their
culture and tell their stories; only then is there a community.
It is not housing developments.They are only walls.
Mr. Chip Wilson, 128 S. Starr, Apache Junction, addressed the
council to invite the council and staff to the dedication of a
hitching post at Prospector Park on November 18 at 3 p.m.It is
being dedicated to Annabelle Richards who has worked for the
community for many years.They will have a pot luck dinner
afterwards.They will also be having a dedication to Ovid Bond
whose health is not very well.It will be at Cloud View in
Pinal County.
B. Tony Ziccardi, 3700 S. Ironwood Drive #147, Apache Junction,
addressed the council regarding the disposition of firearms.He
stated he is in favor of firearms being taken off the street and
destroyed for personal reasons and for anyone who has been duly
authorized to go into a building to face someone who has a
firearm or has to go into a domestic situation where someone has
a firearm or stop someone late at night for a traffic violation
and face a firearm.He realizes that all firearms are not taken
under these circumstances; a lot of them are taken under benign
situations such as arms recovered from burglars who have taken
them from their rightful owners.Every rightful owner who has
identified their weapon and given the local authorities the
proper identification and serial numbers has a right to get
their weapons back.Anyone that could not identify them and the
weapons have been confiscated should have those weapons put into
the pile to be destroyed.He does not believe that anyone has
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the right to have these weapons for put up for resale and have
them go back on the street so that other human beings have to
face these firearms.They could be transported across state
lines to be used in felonies and commissions of crimes.He
believes that anybody that has a conscious and thinks about it
knows that firearms should not be put back on the street.
Firearms that have been confiscated should not be handed back to
people on the street or be given to dealers for resale.They
should also not be sold by police departments.Anybody that has
had a weapon pointed at them understands what he is talking
about.He does not know a lot about what has happened with
these firearms, how the program came about, who put it together,
and what was done with the firearms other than he understands
they have been destroyed.He is glad of that.He believes the
persons in charge of this should be heard from and state why
they had to take that position.
Mr. Louis Babin, 2191 S. Belair, Apache Junction, announced that
he is running for a seat on the council.He added he hoped
there is a process that is not too expensive for Apache Junction
where the police department can look through the firearms and
see if there are any collectible or extremely rare and expensive
firearms.He was thinking they could use red pull ties for
those firearms with destroyed serial numbers or are of no value
and green pull ties on firearms that may have some value if it
does not cost the city more to have that program than it does to
get the firearms divided up.He thinks only 10% to 15% of the
firearms would be collectible.He has seen $10,000 to $15,000
English shotguns exist and he has seen them at the gun shows.
There are some expensive and valuable firearms.Some people
keep them just to say that they have them.Melting firearms
down seems political to him.It sends a message about getting
back at the guns.They are just a machine used for hunting and
law enforcement purposes, and those are good purposes.He
encouraged everyone to get out and vote in Apache Junction.
ANNOUNCEMENT OF CURRENT EVENTS
Councilmember Waldron reminded everyone that this Saturday is
the Veterans Day Parade starting at 9:30 a.m. at the Focal
Point.It will run for about an hour and will be followed by a
ceremony at Veterans Memorial Park staring at 11:00 a.m.They
will have a flyover of an F-117 stealth fighter at 11:11 a.m.
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out of Holloman Air Force Base.He invited everyone to the
parade and the park afterwards.They will have music and food
for everyone.
Councilmember Insalaco stated he and City Engineer Giao Pham
went to Casa Grande for the Central Arizona Association of
Governments meeting.They met with representatives of the
governor's office.They discussed a new funding mechanism to
prepare for growth, new job centers, and a change in the Pinal
County Engineering District.Representatives of the governor's
office were encouraged to attend city and county meetings.The
state and various departments need to look into the Pinal County
growth issues in the areas of transportation, open spaces,
social issues, and affordable housing.Salt River Project and
Arizona Public Service were also there.They requested the
Arizona Department of Transportation be prioritized into a more
balanced system instead of just freeways and highways, which
include transit and toll roads.There are certain places in
California where they have their choice of taking a toll road or
not.This is just an idea that is being kicked around by the
Arizona Department of Transportation.
Councilmember Severs stated the Habitat for Humanity project is
underway.There are 18 beautiful homes being built on Ironwood
and Greasewood.He introduced one of the new homeowners.
Mayor Coleman announced that the girls' volleyball team is
playing in the first round of the state championships tonight
against Queen Creek.It is the first time they have made the
playoffs in 9 years.This Friday, the football team will be
playing in the first round of the playoffs at home, and that is
the first time in the last 24 years that they have been in the
upper bracket of the seedings and have a first round home game.
He invited everyone in the community to come and support them.
They will be playing Flagstaff High School.
Mayor Coleman announced that he is a grandfather for the second
time in 5 weeks.This one's name is Lauren.
CITY MANAGER'S REPORT
City Manager George Hoffman gave a brief status report on the
downtown area.The AJ Town Centre LLC, the landowner, has been
very successful in assembling dozens of smaller properties into
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a single ownership.Many vertical developers will not spend the
considerable time and energy to assemble small parcels.The
importance of the landowner's work is significant.The city
council provided zoning so that the potential for a downtown can
exist.The landowner has indicated that they are going to begin
marketing parcels for sale.It seems likely that some of those
parcels will be purchased by vertical developers, those who wish
to build projects, who may in turn wish to negotiate development
agreements with the city.While the landowner and the city have
explored having a development agreement, both are challenged by
the fact that the landowner is not going to be the vertical
developer.It was difficult for them to indicate what would be
built, when it would be built or who the actual developer would
be.The city has done development agreements before.When the
city negotiated with Wal-Mart for the repayment of
infrastructure, we knew who we were dealing with, when it would
be built, what it was going to cost and what the dollar benefit
would be to the public.A similar approach applied with the
Earnhardt agreement.They look forward to similar discussions
with developers for the downtown and will continue to assist the
landowner as we advance this project.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
ORDINANCE NO. 1281, PZ-11-06,
REZONING BY DENNIS MANFRED FOR THE
PROPERTY AT 489 N. GOLD DRIVE FROM
GR TO CR-1/MH FOR A PROPOSED
PROPERTY SPLIT INTO 2 LOTS IN ORDER
TO DEVELOP THE PROPERTY WITH 2
MANUFACTURED HOMES AND A PRIVATE
ACCESS WAY ).
)Assistant Planner Mike
Heuchert briefed the council on the item.He stated this is
approximately one acre.The general plan designates the area as
medium density residential.Most of the surrounding parcels are
one acre and some have been split.It is an older area of town
and some of them have more than one dwelling unit on them.Most
of them are zoned GR with one parcel to the north which is CR-5.
An aerial from 2004 shows the parcel in the middle and there are
quite a few structures on the property.The current zoning
ordinance only allows one structure on the property.Two
previous property owners have applied for legal non -conforming
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status to have additional structures.Both asked for different
things and both were denied.The current property owner had
done a lot to clean up the property, including removing all the
buildings except for one shed and has placed a new double -wide
mobile home that is ground set on the property.He cleared off
the property with the city providing dumpsters to take the
garbage.He is proposing to do a lot split if the rezoning is
approved.The new mobile home is on the rear parcel and he
would like to split it down the middle and place a mobile home
on the front lot.He would like to provide a 28' utility and
access way easement.The conditions of approval include his
going through the land split process, providing a utility and
access easement for both properties, a new mobile home in
similar condition to the one currently on the rear lot to be
provided for the front lot, applying for permits for the storage
shed, complying with the landscape and screening requirements,
applying for all permits, recording the access way with that
document including that the maintenance costs of the access way
must be split between both properties so that one person is not
paying all the costs, the addressing must be on Gold Drive, and
both properties must use the access way for ingress and egress.
A driveway cannot be made on the back side of the property.
Mayor Coleman requested the
applicant address the council.
Mr. Dennis Manfred, 489 N.
Gold, stated the property is a little over an acre.The reason
for this split is the wash that divides the parcel.Without
this kind of split portions would be unusable.
Mayor Coleman opened the
public hearing on the item.There being no one wishing to
speak, he closed the public hearing and reopened the item to
council discussion.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
would like to repeat his comment from the work session that he
wished the previous landowner had been given the same
opportunity that Mr. Manfred was.
Mayor Coleman closed the
discussion with no further comments and called for a motion.
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Councilmember Insalaco MOVED
THAT ORDINANCE NO. 1281 BE READ BY TITLE ONLY AND THE READING OF
THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE BE WAIVED.
Councilmember Waldron
SECONDED THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
read the ordinance by title only.
Councilmember Insalaco MOVED
THAT ORDINANCE NO. 1281, AS READ BY THE CITY CLERK, BE APPROVED
AND ADOPTED.
Councilmember Waldron
SECONDED THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
RESOLUTION NO. 06-53, DECLARING AS
A PUBLIC RECORD VOLUME II, CHAPTER
7 ENGINEERING DESIGN GUIDELINES AND
POLICIES MANUAL/ORDINANCE NO. 1282,
REPEALING THE APACHE JUNCTION
ENGINEERING GUIDELINES AS ENACTED
IN ORDINANCE NO. 932 AND RESOLUTION
NO. 95-19 AND ADOPTING BY REFERENCE
VOLUME II, CHAPTER 7 ENGINEERING
DESIGN GUIDELINES AND POLICIES
MANUAL
)City Attorney Joel Stern
briefed the council on the items.He stated these two items
will save the city thousands of dollars in publication costs.
If approved, they will create a new standard for the city in 3
different areas of the city.The resolution declares this 300
plus page document a public record.The ordinance essentially
adopts it by reference.By passing it this way, only the
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ordinance has to be published and not the entire document.The
city engineer is here to answer any technical questions.
Mayor Coleman opened the
public hearing on the items.There being no one wishing to
speak, he closed the public hearing and reopened the item to
council discussion.There being no discussion, he called for a
motion.
Councilmember Dietz MOVED
THAT RESOLUTION NO. 06-53, A RESOLUTION OF THE MAYOR AND CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION, ARIZONA, DECLARING AS A
PUBLIC RECORD THAT CERTAIN DOCUMENT FILED WITH THE CITY CLERK
ENTITLED "APACHE JUNCTION CITY CODE, VOLUME II LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE,CHAPTER 7 ENGINEERING DESIGN GUIDELINES AND POLICIES
MANUAL,BE APPROVED.
Councilmember Waldron
SECONDED THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
Councilmember Waldron MOVED
THAT ORDINANCE NO. 1282 BE READ BY TITLE ONLY AND THE READING OF
THE ENTIRE ORDINANCE BE WAIVED.
Councilmember Sippel SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
read the ordinance by title only.
Councilmember Waldron MOVED
THAT ORDINANCE NO. 1282, AS READ BY THE CITY CLERK, BE APPROVED
AND ADOPTED.
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Councilmember Dietz SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
OLD BUSINESS
None.
NEW BUSINESS
DISPOSITION OF FIREARMS BY POLICE
DEPARTMENT
)Vice Mayor Eck briefed the
council on the item.He brought it to the council's attention
after hearing about the guns that were destroyed.He is not
criticizing the chief for doing his job.This was an awakening
that there was no set policy.The chief estimates that we get
about 70 to 80 firearms a year and there was about 1,200
destroyed.He estimates there was about 17 years of guns
destroyed, and he does not know why they were not destroyed
earlier.The chief has one speed and that is full throttle, and
he thinks he does a very good job at what he does.They have a
difference of opinion on this issue.He told Mr. Ziccardi that
if he thought this was a safety issue, he would not propose the
resale of guns.He sees this as a pro -gun or not issue.He
asked the city attorney if the city could legally sell the guns
and if there was any liability and he was assured there was no
liability.There is no known case of a resale gun ever being
involved in a crime.However, he wanted to know how the street
cops felt who deal with the bad guys.He did not want to talk
to the city police officers as he thought that would be
uncomfortable for them.He called Mesa and talked to the
Fraternal Order of Police president.He said they lobbied
Mesa's council to create an ordinance as did their executive
director.They felt that the ordinance protects what would
normally be used in a crime as compared to a gun that usually is
not.While doing his research, he found there was actually no
difference in buying a used firearm from a licensed dealer than
buying a new one.There is a 28 question transaction that has
to be filled out whenever a weapon is bought, new or used, and
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PAGE 11 OF 40
if any lies are written, it is a felony.This is then run
through the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms before that
gun can be purchased.He is talking about the future and does
not want to dwell on the past.That was a decision that was
made and all it did was bring awareness.He had a short
discussion with a National Rifle Association legislative person
who represents Arizona and lives in California.There was some
misinformation, as they were trying to make it appear that the
council was keeping this as a work session item only and not
having a public hearing.He explained that they had a work
session and the city attorney was trying to determine how to
create the public session.He was then apparently made the
poster child for the National Rifle Association and he was not
looking to be that.He apologized to his colleagues as they got
several irate phone calls from members of the National Rifle
Association and he honestly underestimated the National Rifle
Association.He looks upon it as an Apache Junction issue.
Apparently when you talk about guns, you need to be prepared.
He was talking about our policy.He read the Mesa policy.
According to their policy, any guns worth under $100 would be
destroyed.That would include Saturday night specials and the
more common guns you find in the stores.They list assault-
style firearms such as SKSs, which are not illegal but are
repeaters, and AK -47s and AR -15s would not be offered at auction
and would be destroyed.Weapons that are determined to be
inappropriate for auction by the chief of police or his designee
would also be destroyed.Firearms used in the commission of a
crime, including suicide, that resulted in serious injury or
death, would not be offered at auction and will be destroyed.
Firearms with illegible or no serial numbers will be destroyed.
The procedures for the auction of the firearms shall be approved
by the city council.He called and talked to officers and their
attorney who actually worked on this ordinance.They did a ton
of research to come up with this ordinance.This is the one he
is the most comfortable with.
Councilmember Waldron
commented he has been around weapons all his life as a hunter
and had 23 years in law enforcement and the military.His first
inclination was that if it was seized by the police department,
it should be destroyed.However, he was contacted by a number
of people, from Apache Junction and out of state, the latter not
carrying much weight with him, and the majority of them were in
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favor of something other than destruction.Council was provided
with policies from various cities in the valley.The Mesa
policy is probably the most comprehensive and well thought out
policy there is because it covers some items that he was
concerned about, such as weapons that were used in a crime
against a person.He does not think those weapons should be
returned to the street.The argument has been that it was not
the gun's fault; that is true.Nonetheless, it was used in a
crime.Weapons are built for one reason and one reason only.
The argument is that you do not destroy cars.Cars are not
meant to kill, they are meant to drive.Mesa has the policy
that covers the vast majority of situations that will arise.
They use a recommended appraiser that the industry recognizes as
creditable.They also leave off the list assault weapons; there
is no reason to have those on the street.He changed his
viewpoint when he reread that policy.He likes the Mesa policy.
Councilmember Severs stated
he has a lot of different feelings about this.He agrees with
what both of his colleagues have said.The Mesa ordinance has a
few things that he does not agree with.One of the biggest
controversial issues is •that supposedly some of the weapons that
were destroyed were antiques or collectibles.There were World
War II swords.The policy states that firearms that do not have
legible serial numbers will be destroyed.If there is a gun
that is 300 years old, they may not be able to read the serial
number.He would like to have exceptions considered; if they
are collectibles they should not be destroyed.Some weapons
such as shotguns can be bought for $95 or $98.Most single shot
shotguns are used for hunting.They are not used for crimes.
Being sold at auction they could easily sell for $150 to $200.
He thinks there are a few small items that could be changed in
this, but the biggest one is the collectibles and the antiques.
It is a shame if it did happen.He likes to find good in any
situation.In the 51 calls he got from National Rifle
Association people from Pennsylvania, North Carolina and all
over the United States, a lot of those started out negative.He
told the people he supported the chief in what he did, that he
did his job and does it very well.He may have done something
differently than others would have done, but he did it.The
good that he found is that there is no policy on this and it
could happen in the future.The public awareness that has been
brought up on this will insure it will not happen again.Other
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PAGE 13 OF 40
cities that do not have policies may consider this as well.The
good is that he did something that created public awareness and
hopefully they will create a policy tonight to protect the
antiques and collectible items.
Councilmember Sippel stated
he is looking for meaningful dialogue tonight.They know what
has happened, what has happened has happened, and they cannot go
and get those weapons back.There are lots of people coming up
and he is excited about that, but he is looking for guidance
from them.He is not looking for that they should not have done
it and why they did it.They have been getting those phone
calls and letters and they know how they feel on the issue.
They want to look forward, move forward and direct staff to
create a policy so that it does not happen again.It is a
wonderful time because the people can be heard on what they
would like to see in a policy made for the community.It is
what he hopes happens tonight.
Councilmember Insalaco stated
he agreed with Councilmember Severs except that if it gets down
to a rifle that was an antique or very valuable and it did not
have a legible serial number, he would like to leave it up to
the chief or his staff to determine if it is an antique or if it
should be sold.They will not see a serial number on a gun that
is 300 years old; it will be worn off.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he believes there is a provision in there that leaves it to the
discretion of the committee.
Vice Mayor Eck read Item 4
which stated that weapons of historical significance may be
transferred to an appropriate museum and Item 5B says other
weapons which are determined to be inappropriate for offering at
auction by the chief or his designee may be destroyed.He reads
the latter as if the chief sees it with no serial number but
recognizes it as a gun of historical value; he thinks it is
covered.
Mayor Coleman commented he
quit counting the phone calls at 24 calls.He got them from as
far away as Virginia Beach, Virginia.He got a letter today
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PAGE 14 OF 40
from a gentleman in Gilbert, who destroys their weapons.He
thought it was interesting that this man would like to tell them
how to do it here but he does not think he has approached Mayor
Berman.They were all angry, no matter which side of the issue
they were on.He did receive some like the gentleman who spoke
earlier about putting the guns back on the street.He is not
sure there is a huge difference in the crime rates for those
cities that dispose of them as Mesa does by selling and
destruction or those that destroy them all.He does not think
there is.It might mean something symbolically.In looking at
the different ordinances proposed, he found that the one the
National Rifle Association sent to them was the ordinance from
Mesa.It seems to make a lot of sense.He commends the chief
for trying to clean up the evidence room.To him, that was the
mess.He appreciates him coming in and doing this; he is the
first one who has come in and tried to take care of that and get
things back in order.It was obviously not happening before
that.He does not mind looking at what Mesa does on this issue.
He commented he has received several request to speak forms on
this issue and he will call on them.They will see if anyone
has anything new to add to those that asked to come up.He
requested they summarize their comments in 3 minutes.
Mr. Jeff Serdy, 741 E.
Kachina Avenue, Apache Junction, addressed the council.He
commented it is a waste that the other guns got destroyed.He
added they could build a new evidence building with the money
they could have gotten rather than throw it all away.He is
glad they are leaning towards what Mesa is doing and are not
quoting cities like New York, San Francisco and Boston.He
lives in this city, not there, and we have more sense than those
people.He was going to counter if a bunch of negative things
were going to be said.About destroying the guns, they make new
guns every day.They will not destroy them all; it is a
nationwide policy.This city will not set nationwide policy,
only city policy.There is a background check, it is not like
there is an auction with gangsters and a paddle.They go
through proper forms and it will actually help solve crimes
because it gets into the system that way.He thinks altered
serial numbers have to be destroyed; that is required by
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.Anything that is sawed off to a
short length or the number altered, that gun must be destroyed.
Before 1968, guns were not required to have serial numbers.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 15 OF 40
They will encounter many that do not have serial numbers.There
are other things, like the antique swords and cars.They may
need to be incorporated into the policy.The policy states the
chief has the authority to override or make these decisions.
The chief has shown that he is anti -gun ownership.There should
be checks and balances on that.The next chief of police may be
even more anti -gun.He asked who would watch that because he
may decide to destroy 9 out of 10.They might want to form a
panel to decide what will be saved and what will not.
Mr. Landis Aden, 6102 E.
Inglewood Street, Mesa, addressed the council.He stated he
represented the Arizona State Rifle and Pistol Association.It
is the National Rifle Association affiliate for Arizona.They
worked with Mesa to implement that policy a few years ago.It
has some flaws, it is not perfect, but it was a step forward.
They would support moving forward in that direction.For many
years weapons, especially hunting weapons like shotguns, did not
have a serial number.The federal and state law regarding
mutilated or ground off serial numbers requires destruction.
Another aspect is the semi -automatic firearms ban expired and it
is now legal to have them.They will be approaching Mesa about
changing that policy.That ban lasted 10 years and had no
impact whatsoever other than driving up prices.They have seen
a quote around the country about weapons being put back out on
the street.Basically, reselling firearms to law-abiding,
honest citizens is not putting them back on the street.The
average citizen is not a criminal, never has been and never will
be.He would support the resale policy either through FFLs, as
wholesalers, or through a public auction.The facility exists
to do background checks right on the spot.Another aspect of
Arizona law is the concealed weapons permit.That is a de facto
background check and one can buy a firearm on the spot.Arizona
does not have a waiting period, it has an instacheck process.
He encouraged them to move forward on a good, rational policy
and possibly correct some of the flaws that Mesa has.They
might want to look at an enhanced policy for returning lost and
stolen firearms to the public.His group is here as a resource;
for firearms questions please contact him or other officers in
his association or the National Rifle Association in Sacramento.
Mr. Steve Flynn, 305 N. Acacia, Apache Junction, addressed the
council.He believes all firearms are appropriate.If they are
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 16 OF 40
in working order, they should be considered for sale.Even the
cheap weapons, if in working order, should be sold.The poor
have a right to have firearms as well.He believes there is
nothing wrong with an AK -47.He thinks it is a wonderful tool
for self defense.It is a misnomer to call it an assault weapon
as most citizens that own them have ones that are not machine
guns.They have to have an option for a machine gun or semi-
automatic fire.He stated he must be one of those people on the
street who is not trustworthy to be armed.He thinks it is
wasteful and immoral to melt these things down.It is legal,
but it is a slippery slope.He asked if the next thing would be
the confiscation of firearms like in the Katrina aftermath.He
hopes not.A lot of people forget in Arizona that they have two
militias through Article 16.One is the National Guard, which
he was part of, and the irregular or inactive militia.He is a
part of that now and he is in uniform.It means they could be
armed or not and they do not have to be active.They do not go
to any meetings.It is important to know that these weapons
might be needed later on.People think this country can never
be invaded again.He thinks there are a lot of weapons out
there, but he feels the more weapons, the better.As a teacher,
he cannot stand the National Education Association, so he will
also trash the International Association for the Chiefs of
Police.They are an international organization and they love
gun control.They do not trust citizens with these assault
weapons and are frosty towards carrying a concealed weapon.
They network with gun control advocates against carrying a
concealed weapon for assault weapons.They like to melt these
weapons down.He thinks it is wasteful to melt these weapons
down. The thinks the gun control advocates should pay for it if
they insist on that.They should put their money where their
mouths are.Owning a firearm is a right mandated by God.It is
not just in the constitution.The Arizona Constitution is rock
solid.He added they would be doing the right thing if they did
this.
Mr. Jimmy Eidson, 1309 W. 15th Avenue, Apache Junction,
addressed the council.He stated they know what the chief's
discretion is.He thinks the earlier speaker was right, they
need to build in something that will cover that aspect, or the
council will not know what will happen over there.If the man
in charge is anti -gun for the community, he will most likely use
that authority when the time comes.The biggest gripe he has on
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 17 OF 40
the guns being melted down is that it has taken tax money out of
his pocket.He will have to pay tax out of his pocket to make
up the difference that the couple hundred thousand dollars would
have made in the general fund.Sooner or later it will happen.
It has already been stated that there is no way they can keep
the guns out of the hands of people who will kill kids and
policemen.It will have no effect on that whatsoever.They can
just go down the street and buy a gun from the same dealer if
they want to.He is afraid that, sooner or later, the
government will want all their guns.He has a 100% service-
connected disability from the marines.He did not get that by
standing there unarmed with a punk standing across from him with
a firearm.He is afraid it will come down to that sooner or
later; he hopes this is not the start of that latter for Apache
Junction.It sounds like they are on the right track, but he
does not like at the discretion of any one person.It would
depend on how that person thinks and acts.He encouraged them
to keep an eye on it and not let anyone take the money out of
his pocket for tax money.He knows that is where it is going to
come from.He has guns and he will always have guns.He does
not go out and shoot, but if someone wants to kick his door
down, he better watch out, because he can handle a gun and he
will.
Mr. Steven White, 105 N. Delaware, Apache Junction, addressed
the council.He thinks the council is on the right track.He
thanked the chief of police for the wonderful work that he does.
It was not his problem; he was doing what he thought was best
when there was no firm policy for him to follow.He is a gun
owner but feels they are on the right track.He would like to
throw something else in, as he likes his constitutional rights.
He asked if they could take some of the money generated from the
sale of those weapons that have been determined could be sold
and put it into social policies that provided, for instance,
after school art programs for kids and free family community art
shows.This would put some goodness and beauty back into the
world.He wants to live in a community that spends as much time
talking about art as they do talking about guns.
Mr. Wayne Standage, 1920 E. 20th Avenue, Apache Junction
addressed the council.He is a fourth generation Arizonan with
at least 3 decades in law enforcement from this valley to
Harquahala Valley.He has worked on gang enforcement, narcotics
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 18 OF 40
and others.He has been shot at, faced people with guns, and he
has no problem with the policy they are currently trying to
develop.He believes they are on the right track for what they
need to do.Guns should go back if they have not been used for
violent crimes.He requested that special weapons be looked at.
He has an SKS with a very low serial number, one of the first
ones made.It puts it into a different category than just being
an SKS.Things like that need to be looked at before a weapon
like this is destroyed as it is a valuable weapon.
Mrs. Deborah Weller, 471 W. 21st Avenue, Apache Junction,
addressed the council.She stated she is a business owner and a
gun owner.She knows that having her 9MM on her hip in her
store has prevented a robbery at least one time.The policy
that Mesa has is a good policy.The only caveat she has with it
is in regards to their policy on historical weapons.There are
only so many places in museums for historical items.They
probably only display about 10% to 20% of what they have.
Otherwise, it is put in a locker somewhere.Some museums will
not even accept weapons.They may have to search to find one.
She has a friend whose father is liquidating his collection in
Washington and he is trying to find places for his weapons.He
has the equivalent of a small museum himself.The historical
weapons should be offered to museums first but she thinks there
should be no reason why they should not be offered to a
collector through a licensed firearms dealer.The policy is
very reasonable otherwise.She has no problem with getting rid
of the $100 Saturday night specials.
Councilmember Sippel thanked
those who altered their comments to help them move forward in
this process.He was excited about hearing what Mr. Landis had
to say about his organization.He believes he gave his card to
the city clerk and he hopes that he and or his organization will
be included in the motion so they can work out some of the kinks
that have arisen in the Mesa policy.He thanked them all for
their input.
Councilmember Severs stated
he would like to hear from one more person tonight.He asked
for Chief Walp to come up and give his opinion.He has been
defending him for a long time and now it is Chief Walp's turn to
say something.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 19 OF 40
Public Safety Director Glenn
Walp addressed the council.He thanked him for the opportunity
to make some comments.There are three branches of government:
legislative, executive and judicial.The council is
legislative, he is part of the executive; he executes the law.
Whatever decision they make, that is the law he will enforce.
Theirs is not an easy job, but he respects their position
regardless of his position on the issue.No matter what anyone
else's position is on this matter tonight, he also respects
their position.He holds them in high esteem; this is democracy
in action.He appreciates that and he appreciates their
positions on this issue, notwithstanding that they may disagree.
Contrary to statements made earlier tonight, what was done in
this city is not new.It has been here for decades.He
graduated from the state police academy in 1966 and that was the
policy then by many agencies all over the country.As crime and
violence increased in the 80's and 90's, law enforcement took a
different perspective.His position is in solid line with the
International Association of Chiefs of Police.They are not a
legislative body, they are an association.They represent law
enforcement all over the world.Their position is simple.They
would recommend a mandatory destruction of firearms.They state
that the recirculation of these firearms back into the general
population increases the availability of firearms which could be
used again to kill or injure additional police officers or
citizens.They would recommend and encourage all law
enforcement agencies to adopt a mandatory destruction policy of
all firearms that come into its possession which are
unregistered, found or unclaimed property, used in the
commission of any crime, surrendered by any person or purchased
for use by that agency, and that they be destroyed in such a
fashion as to render them permanently unusable as firearms.
They have a caveat regarding the museum pieces as they have
spoken about.That is the policy he stands on.He did not
create one in his living room a few months ago.It is who he
is, what he has been doing all his life, and it is not new.
When he did his research, 70t of the agencies he researched do
the same thing.Phoenix destroys 200 to 300 every month.
Tucson uses big street rollers to crush them.Chandler,
Scottsdale, Tempe, and Glendale all do it.It is nothing
unique.He speculated to make a law that would allow them to
sell the firearms would put them in the minority.There is
nothing wrong with that.He stated he wanted to clear up a few
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 20 OF 40
misconceptions.Mr. Jim Stevens spent 6 months of laborious
work tearing through this with National Crime Information Center
checks, tracking down people, and giving back guns where he
could find the people.One of the problems, for those back in
the 80's, was that some people had already died or moved away.
He could not track them down.In the last week he has given
back 7 weapons from new cases in the city.There were no
samurai swords; there were no samurai swords in World War II.
They were all cheap, flea market swords; they were tagged for
destruction by the individual that came before Jim.There were
five cap and balls rifles; four .50 caliber and one .45 caliber.
They were all cheap reproductions.Four were taken from
criminals, one from a suicide.They were not at Custer's last
stand and did not blaze the trail for Arizona.He heard talk
that the city could have made $150,000 to $250,000.They saw a
list but not the weapons.Many of them were sawed off.Many of
them did not have cylinders or were rusted junk.The serial
numbers were removed.As an earlier gentleman indicated, they
must be destroyed.They figured out, based upon the time frame
that they had these weapons, what they would have collected in
one year.They estimated that in one year, under the normal
processes of getting rid of the weapons, if they had sold what
they had in this pile they would have made $1,000 to $2,000 per
year.There is a statement made that if the weapon is bought
from a federally licensed dealer it does not have to be worried
about.That is not true.He went to the Executive Gang
Enforcements Symposium last week and met Mr. Emory Hurley,
Assistant U.S. Attorney for the State of Arizona.They have
been spearheading through Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms a
project called Project Safe Neighborhoods, a project to get the
guns off the streets.Two of the major problems they have
encountered are straw purchases, which is gang dealers hiring
people who have good records to go in and buy the weapons.One
case is where one person hired eight people to go in and buy
twelve weapons at one time to give back to gang dealers who pay
a very high price.They had a major case in Prescott Valley
recently.They also do identity thefts.They use that to
purchase.The concept that if you buy from a federally licensed
dealer that it is totally clean and always will be clean is not
exactly true.It is considered the major problem in that arena
at this point.The chief legal counsel for Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms will not sell one weapon except to those people to get
it back.They destroy every one.His comment was they do not
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 21 OF 40
have enough money in their coffers to pay one suit of the
millions of dollars if someone gets shot and killed or injured
with a weapon that they sell.Comments were made about hunting
weapons.Hunting weapons can kill.We know that many young
children were destroyed in Columbine with a shotgun.He added
that 99.9% of the weapons that were destroyed here were either
taken from a criminal during a crime or from drug dealers and so
forth in the city.Some key words in the Mesa policy are those
involved in a crime, but he is not sure of their interpretation
of the phrase against a person.What he got from that is if it
is involved in a crime, they do not sell it.The argument that
if someone is hurt or injured with the weapon that the city may
sell, that the person would just have gotten another weapon
anyway, is very hollow when one is looking into the eyes of the
victim's family and their young child or family member is
rotting in the ground.One mistake with one gun one time will
result in millions of dollars in a lawsuit.He respectfully
disagrees if they think they are protected from a civil lawsuit.
It is a reason the federal government does not sell weapons.
The choice is theirs, and it is not an easy choice.He asked as
they make that final decision, from his perspective not as Glenn
Walp, that they think about America and its safety, the safety
of its streets and our town, of its families and its children.
Any weapon that they may sell in that time, with just one
incident occurring, one person being injured by that, is not
worth it to him.It is not a matter of money; it is a matter of
integrity, security, safety and the love of our country,
families and children.Ten young children died in schools this
year by a weapon.God forbid that a weapon they sell would be
used in such a case.He respects their decision but he simply
stated from a professional law enforcement perspective choose
well.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
respects the chief and it certainly sounds bad when one talks
about families and all that.He feels that if these are going
to federally licensed firearms dealers, then for someone else to
buy the gun would be a felony.He does not understand the
difference between going to a dealer and going to Wal-Mart.
They can get the guns there.The one gun that stood out to him,
being a hunter, was the Wesley 300 and he does not know what
condition it was in, but he could not afford one.They are
expensive guns.He was wondering on the language for item 4,
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 22 OF 40
the weapons having a historical significance being transferred
to appropriate museums, if they could add or sold at auction.
The other concern was about assault -style firearms and it lists
what they are.He would like to change the language to modified
or illegal firearms will not be offered at auction and will be
destroyed.He would like to see all the money go back to the
police department.
Councilmember Severs
commented the one item that states that firearms should be in
working condition in order to be considered for bid strikes him
as funny as a lot of antiques and collectibles may not be
working.A gun that does not work is not a danger to anyone.
He wants to protect anything that may be a collectible or
antique.It is part of our history.
Councilmember Insalaco stated
there are probably a lot of antique guns that they do not even
make ammunition for.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.To him, they are not very dangerous.
Councilmember Sippel asked if
they were giving direction tonight.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
was planning on it but to go from where we are at to something
that mirrors Mesa's ordinance is a huge step.He thinks they
are good taking that step and if they have to do some revisions,
they need to check to see how the new ordinance would apply the
next time that they process guns.The language changes he
suggested would address a couple things without adding too much
to revising the whole ordinance.They are two minor issues.He
has spoken with Landis and he has gotten a lot of information
from him on this.He would like to see historical guns go to a
museum or be sold at auction.Any firearm that has been
modified or is an illegal firearm would not be offered at
auction; it would be destroyed.
Councilmember Waldron
commented he would like to see the direction include that they
explore the liability issue.It causes him some concern.They
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 23 OF 40
as a council cannot put the city in a position to lose millions
of dollars in a lawsuit.It needs to be explored carefully so
that they are not putting themselves in a situation where they
will jeopardize the citizens.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed.He
felt comfortable with what the attorney gave us.That was his
first question to the Mesa attorney who worked on this.A
National Rifle Association attorney sent them something also.
He asked the city attorney if he had received something of a
response to liability from them.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they sent a copy of the Mesa ordinance which they fully
endorsed.
Vice Mayor Eck commented it
was prior to that by a few weeks.He is fine with their
checking on the liability.That was one of his biggest
concerns.
Mayor Coleman closed the
discussion and called for a motion.
Vice Mayor Eck MOVED THAT THE
FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING FIREARMS
DESTRUCTION POLICY:THAT WE MIRROR MESA'S CURRENT ORDINANCE ON
FIREARMS DISPOSAL POLICY FOR FIREARMS SEIZED BY OUR APACHE
JUNCTION POLICE DEPARTMENT.HE WOULD LIKE TO REVISE SECTION 2
ITEM 4, WEAPONS HAVING HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE MAY BE
TRANSFERRED TO APPROPRIATE MUSEUMS OR SOLD AT AUCTION, AND ALSO
NUMBER 5A TO STATE THAT MODIFIED OR ILLEGAL FIREARMS WILL NOT BE
OFFERED AT AUCTION AND WILL BE DESTROYED; AND THAT THE MONEY
RECOUPED FROM THE SALE OF THESE GUNS BE TURNED BACK TO THE
POLICE DEPARTMENT OR IN TO THE POLICE DEPARTMENT; AND ALSO THAT
WE FURTHER EXPLORE ALL LIABILITY ISSUES BY TAKING THIS ACTION.
Mayor Coleman asked if he
needed a date to bring it back.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if they
could do it the first meeting in December.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 24 OF 40
There was general discussion
on when to bring this item back.
,Vice Mayor Eck AMENDED HIS
MOTION TO ADD AT THE FIRST MEETING IN FEBRUARY.
Councilmember Severs SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
Mayor Coleman called for a
ten minute recess.
Mayor Coleman reconvened the
meeting.
COUNCIL DIRECTION TO STAFF
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT THAT
WOULD ALLOW AN ADDITIONAL
RESIDENTIAL HOUSING UNIT ON A
RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY FOR THE
PURPOSE OF HOUSING CARETAKERS
)Councilmember Severs
briefed the council on the item.He stated it was brought to
his attention several times about a month ago by De'etta
Fountain.She and her husband are very ill.They have a small
travel trailer on their property and they would like their
granddaughter to move in there to help take care of her.In
doing research, the county has a conditional use permit
application where they would pay a fee, fill out the application
and if certain criteria are met, someone would be able to move
into a secondary structure to take care of the people in the
main residence or someone could be moved into the secondary
structure for that person to be taken care of.It has been
looked at a few times in the past, and they have already had
discussion on this.He would like to see people be able to do
this.If they can do it right now for the care of horses or
livestock, he thinks they should be able to do it to take care
of our elderly.One of the criteria that would have to be met
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 25 OF 40
is having a doctor's note that would have to be filled out
annually stating there are medical reasons that this is needed.
He would also like to add a financial note to this as well.A
lot of our elderly are living on a very fixed and slim income.
It is sometimes difficult to have an apartment or anything nice.
He would like to see that happen if it can be done.
Councilmember Waldron
commented it looks like the county application is pretty
thorough.He thinks this direction should be that they
basically mimic this application.It gets all the information
that is required.
Councilmember Severs
commented he does not exactly want to mimic the county
application as it does not allow for any financial purposes.
Councilmember Waldron asked
that he explain financial purposes.
Councilmember Severs stated
his mother, for example, gets $600 per month for a total income.
Her apartment rent is $595 per month.She does not have enough
money for anything else.
Councilmember Waldron
commented he thought this was designed for medical care.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is what he is saying.He would like to modify this a
little bit and make it for medical or financial purposes; they
would be able to help a few more people who desperately need
help.He does not think that it needs to be decided tonight,
but he would like to see direction to look into it.
Councilmember Sippel
commented he is not against that, but tonight it was just for
the purpose of housing caretakers.He does not know if that is
something that needs to come on again for a different direction.
Councilmember Severs stated
this is for a caretaker suite or a secondary structure to be
placed on a property.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 26 OF 40
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they have the option of having planning staff and legal
staff take a look at this particular ordinance or policy that
the county has done.They could then come back with
recommendations on how it would fit into our code.There might
be some inconsistencies that it creates within the code.They
would also take into consideration all the comments made tonight
and from the work session.
Councilmember Sippel
commented he is not saying he is against this, but they may need
to be two separate issues and not be rolled into the same one.
Councilmember Severs stated
it is definitely an option.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he thinks he likes Joel's suggestion to come back and look at
the different options, where they stand and what can work and
what cannot.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
is concerned about creating something that will not be used very
much; they need to see how many conditional use permits are
pulled when they do.
Councilmember Severs
commented Rudy stated this comes up quite often.It may be a
bigger issue than they know.
Vice Mayor Eck commented his
concern is that if he had R-143 and they are talking about
travel trailers.
Councilmember Severs stated
they are talking about secondary structures, whether it be a
trailer, travel trailer or a secondary structure that has been
built.The county allows for the latter, also.
Councilmember Waldron
commented he has a concern for something other than medical
purposes.He feels it is a slippery slope.His mother is 83-
years -old and lives on her own.When she gets to that point, he
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 27 OF 40
would move her into his house.He agrees with the medical
purposes part of it, and he understands the need to take care of
a relative, but he is hard pressed to believe why they would
allow and under what conditions they would allow a separate unit
to be built on a property simply for taking care of an elderly
relative.Certainly they need the care, but he feels they may
be opening a Pandora's box on that one.His neighbor built on a
mother-in-law portion to his house and it was within the
setback.He thought this was designed for medical care, and
that is how he looked at it.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that previous councils had wrestled with these issues and
their inability to monitor the temporary use made them decide
not to go ahead with any changes.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
thinks what he is trying to get at is if there is that much of a
demand; he does not know every ordinance in this county.He
asked if they do a conditional use permit every year and do they
have to check every year to make sure that they are medically or
financially necessary.
Councilmember Severs
commented it is not a new application every year with the
county.The application is filled out, but they have to present
documentation every year, whether it be a doctor's note or, in
his suggestion, a financial statement.
Councilmember Dietz commented
that is how they could curb this from getting into a rental
situation.They would need an affidavit or something from a
medical office.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated the county procedure addressed medical issues only and
not a financial hardship.
Councilmember Dietz commented
it is for medical.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that her experience in working with nonprofit
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 28 OF 40
organizations was that it was expensive for them to obtain
awaited financial statements and it would be even more difficult
for a single individual to do the same thing and for staff to
interpret the statements.
Councilmember Dietz stated
when it was discussed previously he thought that getting a
doctor's note stating that these people needed 24 -hour care and
needed a caretaker or someone to take care of them is getting
the city away from the problem of turning it into a rental 2 or
3 years down the road.
City Clerk Kathleen Connelly
stated that would be covered under the procedure used by Pinal
County.
Councilmember Dietz commented
that covers us on that end as far as it not being turned into a
rental somewhere down the road.
Councilmember Insalaco
commented the city attorney made a suggestion, and it is not
that he wants to put more work on staff as they are busy enough,
but instead of doing something halfway and to make sure they get
something concrete, he suggested they have staff and the city
manager look at it and then bring it back to them on the entire
thing.They have the resources.
Mayor Coleman closed the
discussion and called for a motion.
Councilmember Severs stated
it is a difficult motion to make because they have two people in
the community that are waiting for an answer to see if they can
legally have someone live on their place and take care of them.
He would like to see staff look at this, get all the answers and
draft something that is good.If they take the time to do it
right, they might be hurting this couple that need help.He
asked for suggestions on helping them.He asked if they could
give them a temporary approval and allow them to have live-in
care while they work on this.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 29 OF 40
City Attorney Joel Stern
commented if he is talking about putting something in place in
the zoning code that means changing the zoning code.It would
have to go through planning and zoning and then the council.It
would be unusual to just come up with something for a temporary
zoning and say it is temporary until they find a bigger fix.He
would not recommend it.They should take some time to study it,
talk to the county to see what they do and what kind of problems
they came up with.They might want to amend theirs but have not
gotten around to it due to some issues coming up.He
understands the urgency of it.He could set a deadline for
staff to bring it back, but it would have to be a prioritization
thing for the whole council.To have a temporary fix for a
zoning code is very unusual.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated they may be going in two directions.In the one
direction they have a model out there and it is a shorter term
process to talk to the county and to work on that.If they are
getting into the financial model, he is not getting a clear read
on that issue.It suggests a whole much wider scope of
reflection, consideration and research.He asked if they would
be setting up something like financial qualification as they do
in grants and who sees which documents.It is a significant and
substantial research effort.They would be happy to do it if
they want staff to go that way.It is a longer process.The
county application is a discreet, clear model they can respond
to.
Councilmember Severs asked
how long it would take if they used that model and did the
research with the county.
City Attorney stated they
have to consider the planning and zoning commission, the legal
publications, and the council public hearings, it would be at
least three months, probably more like a four month minimum.
Councilmember Severs added
there will be a lack of meetings due to the holidays.
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NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 30 OF 40
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it would be at least 6 months if he wanted the full
participation of the public.
Councilmember Severs
commented there is 3 to 6 months of investigating to do while
this couple that is sick and looking for someone to take care of
them in a trailer that is already sitting on their property.He
thought there should be some way that they could offer some kind
of an exception until this is worked out.There should be
something they can do to help these people.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated it is a zoning change; they have to go through the
ordinance change.That is how the zoning code is changed.
Planning and zoning must act on it pursuant to city code.There
is no way around that.
Vice Mayor Eck asked if they
could buy a horse and have a caretaker.
Councilmember Severs stated
they put a horse on their property right now and the nurse or
their daughter could live on that property tomorrow legally.
Mayor Coleman stated that may
be the temporary fix.
Vice Mayor Eck commented that
is what he was getting at.They might want to buy a horse if
that is the code.He could see no possibility of speeding it
up.
Councilmember Dietz commented
as much as they would like to, he does not see how they can pick
something they would want to do and have it done tomorrow to
accommodate them.
Councilmember Severs
commented they must be able to make an exception.This is a
guideline.
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NOVEMBER 7, 2006
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Mayor Coleman commented he
does not think he wants to start making exceptions to our
ordinances or fixing tickets or anything like that.He does not
think it is something that should be done.He does not think it
is good public policy and he is not willing to consider it.He
is willing to consider what they have on the agenda tonight.He
closed the discussion and called for a motion.
Councilmember Severs MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING A
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT THAT WOULD ALLOW AN ADDITIONAL
RESIDENTIAL HOUSING UNIT ON A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY FOR THE
PURPOSE OF HOUSING CARETAKERS FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES:THAT STAFF
LOOK INTO THE SITUATION, LOOK INTO THE COUNTY APPLICATION AND
HOW THEY DO IT; AND ALSO LOOK AT PROS AND CONS ON WHETHER IT
WOULD WORK OR NOT WORK IF WE COULD REGULATE IF IT BE FOR ANY
OTHER PURPOSE, IF THERE IS A NEED FOR IT FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE;
AND BRING BACK WHATEVER FINDINGS THEY COULD BY THE FIRST MEETING
IN FEBRUARY.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated they are to come back to council first.If they want to
proceed they would then go on to planning and zoning and that
route.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated he understands he wants to see some language for a
proposed ordinance amendment.
Councilmember Severs stated
he just wants to see the research and see how big of a need
there is for this.
City Manager George Hoffman
asked for clarification on how big a need there is for this.He
asked if he was talking about polling the community.
Councilmember Severs
commented he just wants to have them talk to staff and determine
how many people have come in and applied.He wants to know if
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 32 OF 40
this is something that is a great need in the community or is it
just one person who came up with this idea.
City Manager George Hoffman
commented that what he wants is just an internal checking with
the professionals and not doing community research.
Councilmember Severs stated
that is correct.
Vice Mayor Eck SECONDED THE
MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
SAGUARO CACTUS AND NATIVE PLANTS
PROTECTION ORDINANCE
)Councilmember Dietz
briefed the council on the item.He stated they discussed a
little while ago saving the saguaro cactus and other native
plants in the area.He thought they had it covered when they
redid the grading ordinance, but evidently not.He had found
out that the saguaro is protected by the state, but it is not
because of the little incident we had a couple of weeks ago.If
you own your own property, you can fill out a notice of intent
and send it to the state and bulldoze every saguaro or what have
you on your property.He does not feel that is right; it is a
prized plant for the state.There are organizations that will
come out and remove all of them at no charge.Scottsdale and
Tucson both have good ordinances that protects these cacti and
native plants.The state laws would not supersede ours; it
would be whichever one is the most strict.If they want to
protect the saguaros and native plants in the city, they would
not be able to blade them over when they do these massive
blading and grading.He would like staff to look at these two
ordinances and come up with one for the city that will protect
them.
Mayor Coleman asked if
Proposition 207 would apply to something like this.
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NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 33 OF 40
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated that is a political issue that he did not think the
council should talk about on election night.There might be
people waiting in line to vote still.
Vice Mayor Eck commented what
Councilmember Dietz said was a major learning curve.He also
thought that when they did that blading ordinance that they were
protecting the native vegetation.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he thought it was both wildlife and plants.
Vice Mayor Eck agreed.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated back in 1999 Kate Morris was involved in changing Article
15 for residential zones.The plant protection act came up and
they did come up with a few options.That kind of died with the
redo of Article 15.
Vice Mayor Eck commented
there was something that Glen Van Nimwegen said.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he has a copy of those minutes.It was suggested that it be
moved into the city's planning and zoning, but it was never
done.
Vice Mayor Eck commented the
association out of Tucson, Tucson Cactus, notified him that they
do not want to be part of an ordinance.He was using a lot of
their information as they have a lot of knowledge.
Councilmember Dietz commented
he was just bringing up the fact that there are organizations
that will do it.The Phoenix chapter called and he talked to
them at length.They have over 90 people here.
Vice Mayor Eck commented one
of the gentlemen from Phoenix stated he tries to work with
developers rather than force them.The other part is the
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 34 OF 40
ordinance has to have some teeth or it cannot be regulated.The
other ordinance suggested was Oro Valley.
Councilmember Sippel
commented he thought they were great ideas.
City Manager George Hoffman
stated the superintendent of our parks division is here and he
is also a registered landscape architect.He asked Nick Blake
if he had anything to add before they consider making a motion.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake commented he wanted to clarify some points that have been
stated.The Tucson group will not come in and move the big
stuff for free.They come in and get the small stuff that
normally gets bulldozed down.If they are talking about moving
a saguaro or a palo verde with a 6" caliper, they will not move
those for free.It is small stuff they can come in and hand dig
over a weekend.State law requires them to file a notice of
intent to clear the land and how big the parcel is determines
how long the notice goes for.During that time period the state
notifies salvage companies that are registered with them.They
let them know that there are some plants that are about to be
destroyed and they can go get them if they want them for free.
They get to box them up and haul them off.He talked to someone
from one company that is the major salvager in the Phoenix area
and was told that they actively look for those situations where
they can come in and haul stuff off.If that notice expires and
no salvage company has come in to claim those trees and plants,
that developer can knock down anything that is there.If there
is a 30' saguaro that no one wanted to come and get, it can be
knocked down and it is completely legal.Their option is how
much beyond that they want to go.The Scottsdale level is the
requirement of a plant study to be done by a professional group
who then determines what plants are salvageable and requiring
their removal.
Councilmember Dietz commented
that would be up to the research staff does after looking at the
3 ordinances and seeing what is available.They will then bring
it back to council and we will see where we go from there.He
believes that something needs to be done.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 35 OF 40
Councilmember Severs
commented he was confused.He thought the saguaro was the state
tree and that it was protected.He thought it was illegal to
destroy one.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated it is illegal to knock it down without adequate
notice.That is what the law says.
Vice Mayor Eck commented it
is unfortunate that the state does not even come out and look at
them.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated most times they do not.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated the city code prohibits the destruction of saguaros on
city property and state land.
Councilmember Severs
commented they need to create an ordinance that will help save
the cacti.
City Attorney Joel Stern
stated they are talking about the ones on private property.
Scottsdale does it and Tucson has a very restrictive one.He
thinks Pima County also has one.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated Mesa has one for their desert uplands area.
Vice Mayor Eck commented he
knew Mesa had one because it went into effect on a Monday and a
developer by Crismon bladed on the Sunday before.They were
furious.
City Manager George Hoffman
commented they would be looking at the ordinances of Scottsdale,
Tucson and Oro Valley.
Councilmember Insalaco asked
if he would have to get a tag from the state to transport it if
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 36 OF 40
the vice mayor had a saguaro on his property and he wanted to
get rid of it and give it to him.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated he would if he takes it off his property and takes
it over to yours.
Councilmember Insalaco
commented he had a friend putting in a pool many years ago in
Globe and he had 2 saguaros and 4 or 5 barrel cacti.He had to
get tags from the state and put them in his truck before he
could move them.
Councilmember Severs asked if
he had to pay for those.
Councilmember Insalaco stated
he did, although it was not much.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated he believed they are six dollars.
Councilmember Severs stated
they do not need a tag or have pay to bulldoze them.
he had to pay for those.
he did, although it was not much.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake commented not once they have been given adequate notice
and that time has elapsed.
Assistant City Manager Bryant
Powell asked if there is a relationship between how big it is
and being able to salvage the cactus and the cost.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated that is what the professionals do.They come out
and they do a survey and look at the saguaro.It is sad to say
that if there is a saguaro 50' tall, it cannot be salvaged.
Assistant City Manager Bryant
Powell asked why.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated they come up and they bolt them to a cradle.When
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 37 OF 40
they pull those up they have to tip them back.If the saguaro
is too tall, it just breaks off.
Assistant City Manager Bryant
Powell stated it is a detriment to be bigger.
Parks Superintendent Nick
Blake stated the companies that salvage them have their own
height limits.Some will not move them if they are over 20' to
25'; the highest he has heard of them being moved is 30'.The
number of arms will also affect that.Some of them are rotted
at the base, and when the salvager comes in and digs at the
base, he knows it will snap off at the base.It pays to have
the professionals come in and do a survey as Scottsdale
requires.The city just did one at the library recently to
survey the existing plants there as a result of the construction
that will take place shortly.He believes they paid $650 for
1.35 acres and $1,200 for a 3 -acre parcel.It is basically $400
to $480 per acre to have the study done.
Vice Mayor Eck commented it
is worth it.
Councilmember Dietz agreed.
Mayor Coleman closed the
discussion and called for a motion.
Councilmember Dietz MOVED
THAT THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION BE GIVEN TO STAFF REGARDING SAGUARO
CACTUS AND NATIVE PLANT PROTECTION ORDINANCE:THAT STAFF
RESEARCH SCOTTSDALE, TUCSON, ORO VALLEY, PIMA IF THEY HAVE IT,
WHOEVER, AND COME UP WITH SOME LANGUAGE AS FAR AS DRAFTING AN
ORDINANCE FOR THE CITY TO PROTECT THESE PLANTS.
Vice Mayor Eck SECONDED THE
MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 38 OF 40
SELECTION OF MEETING DATES, TIMES, LOCATIONS, AND PURPOSES
Councilmember Dietz stated
the work session of November 20 and the regular meeting of
November 21 have been cancelled due to the Thanksgiving Day
holiday, and he MOVED THAT AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 6:00 P.M. AND
A WORK SESSION AT 7:00 P.M. BE HELD ON MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 2006,
IN THE CITY COUNCIL CONFERENCE ROOM AND CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS,
RESPECTIVELY; AND
THAT AN EXECUTIVE SESSION AT 6:00 P.M. BE HELD ON TUESDAY,
DECEMBER 5, 2006, IN THE CITY COUNCIL CONFERENCE ROOM.
Councilmember Severs SECONDED
THE MOTION.
VOTE:Unanimous.
The motion carried.
ADJOURNMENT
)Mayor Coleman adjourned
the meeting at 9:28 p.m.
Consent Agenda Items are as follows:
1. Acceptance of Agenda.
2. Acceptance of Minutes of Special Meeting of October 6, 2006.
3. Acceptance of Minutes of Regular Meeting of October 17, 2006.
4. Consideration and possible approval of proposed economic
development agreement with Apache Junction Main Street
Program, Inc. for FY 2006-07 in the amount of $40,000.
5. Consideration and possible approval of proposed economic
development agreement with Apache Junction Community
Development Corporation for FY 2006-07 in the amount of
$7,155.00.
ACCEPTED THIS 5TH DAY OF DECEMBER, 2006, BY THE MAYOR AND CITY
COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF APACHE JUNCTION, ARIZONA.
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
PAGE 39 OF 40
SIGNED AND ATTESTED TO THIS 5TH DAY OF DECEMBER, 2006.
ATTEST:
KATHLEEN CONNELLY
City Clerk
DOUGLAS ,COLEMAN
Mayor
CITY COUNCIL MINUTES
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and
correct copy of the minutes of the regular meeting of the City
Council of the City of Apache Junction, Arizona, held on the 7th
day of November, 2006.I further certify that the meeting was
duly called and held and that a quorum was present.
Dated this 15th day of November, 2006.
KATHLEEN CONNELLY
City Clerk
REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 7, 2006
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